Nzogbia

Hi Thinker, An excellent and insightful reply, and one which gave me much food for thought. I especially agree with your comments re: the Pollyanna-ish, stepford citizen culture which is controlled so tightly by vested interests. For me, I always found it slightly sinister the way the media, clearly in concert with government, presented the the news in a ridiculously biased manner and that dissent was often dismissed as 'un-Australian'. Conversely, in the UK, we question EVERYTHING and nothing escapes a no holds barred debate. Ultimately though, I find it doesn't make that much difference. I feel happier with a more questioning, more transparent culture (UK), but in every western country, including the UK, corporations run the game and the government and I wonder if the illusion of a robust media/democratic system is what they'd like us to think we have. Sorry, bordering on the conspiracy theory there, but in the Western world we have mothers and fathers both working to send kids to nursery and so that we can pay mortgages on houses that increase in value and so secure the loan books of big banks and pay bankers bonuses. As you say, it's all nuts - but until it changes, I might prefer a decent climate and some sunshine!

Thanks Aunt Agatha - I never considered that. You may very well be right. The other aspect is, for north east people, working away from home during the week is just a way of life, and has been for years. I think it's easier to do this in your twenties but a lot harder to keep doing it in your 40's especially if you have a young-ish family. Good luck with the move back. Newcastle still has its old charms, but is still entrenched in its old problems. Sometimes things happen for a reason. I count myself the luckiest fella alive that I moved back here on a 'hunch' and met my amazing wife. Good luck has to land on you eventually!

Hey Thinker78, thanks for adding your thoughts. It certainly took me back to some of my old PIO mini-rants when I was living in Melbourne (oh the shame). I checked back through them and yep, they pretty much match your own sentiments perfectly! I was, like you, particularly horrified by the constant stream of pollyan-ish, how good is that (everything), force fed foi grois unquestioning line of the Australian media, which dumbed down the level of debate on everything (or simply ignored significant world events). Is ignorance bliss? It's a tricky one. Between the UK and Australia it's one end of the spectrum to the other. The news here is truly a never ending tide of misery, which bombards you on every single news channel. I think the news outlets here forget that most people in the UK are living with most of these 'issues' on a daily basis and would actually quite like a departure from the miseryfest. A few good news stories would be nice now and again, to remind you that it's ok to be happy and really, that's what we should all hope for. On the other hand, the Australian approach of the 4th estate simply blanking out anything which may be seen as unpatriotic, self critical, negatively affecting property prices (aka vested interests) or generally anything that might make the populus question how things are done, in favour of a 'news' story about a brave Austrayian fire crew fishing a pensioner's cat from a tree "How good was that?!" and telling everyone how happy they should be because the sun is shining (again). Well, which system is best? Tricky huh? :-)

Hello everyone, Just thought I'd give people a quick update about my own experiences/impressions since moving back to the UK (Newcastle upon Tyne). I left Melbourne and returned home to the UK in early 2012 having spent 6 years in Oz, and having gained my Australian citizenship (for which I was very proud and grateful). I made a very brief return to Oz for a special occasion in late 2012, but other than that I have been UK bound. So, now it is nearly 2015. What has changed? Well, first off, I returned to Newcastle in 2012 for no particular reason - but rather because of a feeling I had...... that I SHOULD, somehow. Can't explain it any more than that. Anyway, the week after I got 'home' I met a local girl, half Italian, absolutely gorgeous. We got married this summer. Happy Days! :-) I've really enjoyed being back in Newcastle, with family and familiar/long standing friends. I think that connection never went away and maybe drew me back to old Blighty. However, despite knowing Australia's faults I always believed it was a great country and I was very privileged to become a citizen. All of the pro's and cons that I wrote about a few years ago on here still stand up, but yep, no doubt, Australia (and other countries I'm sure) has a spoiling effect on you. I noticed that a lot of my mates here in Newcastle have changed. Yes, we're all getting older, but they all seem so much more world weary, and downbeat with the pressures of just getting by. Life has always been a bit of a struggle to some extent, but now the UK just seems SO much more cut throat. People (ie: both parents) seem to work themselves to death just to get by, and there is no job security. Quite a few of the Europeans I know who left Australia since 2010 have now gone back again. Part of me envies them. I know the jobs market has tightened in Oz, but still, I always felt that an air of positivity still prevailed - that everyone I knew did their job and then really enjoyed having a few cold ones after work and talking about sport/plans for weekend breaks/meeting up etc.... That being outdoors was a joy, and you could do it with family and kids and really feel the space around you. Ok, so now I'm sounding like some sun-dappled Hovis advert and need to snap back to reality.... yep, I know the sausages were no good, the political debate puerile, the supermarkets rubbish, vested interests in control of everything, you couldn't travel anywhere of any great cultural difference in a reasonable amount of time, AND the biscuits just weren't right.....but by God, did I enjoy wearing shorts and T shirts and kicking down the streets of Richmond, Prahran and St Kilda, drinking ice cold beer and feeling 'light' and 'alive'. You never, or very rarely, feel that in the UK. It's a stodgy existence. Of course Britain is very much better at some things, but on balance, which is better? For me, Australia is better. We've been thinking we may start a family in the next year or two, and I've been thinking seriously, for any kid, which would be the better environment? If the grown up kid feels this way, I'm guessing it may be no competition for any real child. Of course, I'll have to get the missus to agree to any Oz move - which may prove a little tricky....hmmmm Boy do I miss Australia though. I really do. All that said, remember - this is just my opinion. For some, I'm sure Britain delivers on every level and is right for them and their family. Peace and happy living - wherever you are! ps: maybe just because I'm not there now, but Melbourne always seemed a little 'magical'. Britain doesn't have that 'magic' for me any more.

Actually no, hold on.......since I am accused of not supporting my statements... http://www.theage.com.au/opinion/society-and-culture/manufacturing-majesty-to-camouflage-the-everyday-20110423-1ds4o.html Ah, but there will be a special pull out section next week though won't there. Hypocrites and student union warriors to boot. Thanks for the political education fairfax. Undeserving of wiping your arse on. Let me know someone when you find anything positive in the Age about the UK.

Yeah, thanks Pabs - I studied French history, so was actually thanking you for the apt reference in so far as the Aussie press would present our own mob in this light. Just to make clear. I am a Geordie. My grandfather was a boilermaker in the docks and my other grandad worked on the railways. I was told at a very early age that I should assume that I am no better or no worse than anyone else. I believe this to be a very, very important maxim. What I think the Aussie press should realise is that many people in the UK are TIRED. They have endured and are enduring a deep, long lasting recession. The royal wedding is fluff and pageantry and it is an escape very temporarily from the usual shoite. It does NOT mean that British people wish habitually to doff the cap to the chinless wonders. Quite frankly, it could be Shrek the wedding and people would look forward to the spectacle. It doesn't mean they want to genuflect to those who are waltzing up the aisle. Two asides: 1) Don't want to open the entire republican question to debate, but do people actually understand that a constitutional monarchy provides the electorate witha get out of jail free card? Let's just say the incumbent pollies turned a bit nasty and put tanks on the street. All the public would need do is come out in force and petition the Windsors to dissolve parliament. Otherwise, generally, the Royals are a Disney sideshow and for tourist purposes only. 2) Has anyone read the Age Opinion today? Paranoid am I? Really? Why has the Age not ran, ever, an excoraiting editorial on the Danish Royal family and Mary Donaldson? Someone please answer me that? Ok, now I really will shut up.

Ah Peacock - you and your sad little friends. You will have your way won't you. In the face of evidence and a decent argument...how do you respond? You belittle and make fun of. Nice strategy. Very effective. You will be happy to know I will not post again here. I will continue to question what I think is wrong and unfair though no matter how many people like you I come across. You will take the p*ss and continue in your bullying and your bigotry. Good on yer, jog on, have fun, and good luck. You're going to need it. In the world of Pollyanna everyone ends up, eventually, with a spike up their arse. It's only a matter of time.

Selective - again. Why have you not mentioned the section re 'Excerpts' - because it entirely vindicates what I have said and is damning in the extreme. I may copy it out and paste it on here at some point. Page 17 - Have you actually read the article? have you actually read the section about organising a republican themed alternative?

Tracey123 - you are a strange fruit. You trawl a Poms in Oz site looking for examples of dissent. Do you find that a little odd. Let me tell you this - I spend SO much time telling my freinds and family in the UK how great Australia is. However, the Uk is my country of birth and wehn I feel it is being doen down or misrepresented by the press here, then I feel that directly, as it reflects on those people I care about. If you were in the UK as an Australian (is it your birth country) and you perceived that very bit of press in teh UK about Australia was negative and did your friends and family a disservice would you not express your disappoitment. I know anyone of European extraction here would be exactly the same as me.

SiamSusie - I'd really appreciate it if you took a balanced view of any debate. My partner is Hobartian and even she can concede that not everything in Australia is perfect and some things could be improved. I'm sorry, but my appreciation of your posts is that you reached the promised land when you arrived here. Australia has been good to you, as it has been to me -in many, many ways. But please attempt to cast a somewhat critical eye now and agian - it' the sign of a healthy, inquiring mind and a stable society. As for Tracey123 - do not tell me about where I am living and what I should or should not do and what I should be interested in. I am an AUSTRALIAN. I am also BRITISH and if you don't like the fact that I care about Britain being unfairly represented in the Australian press then quite frankly - boo hooo. Or perhaps I am being "un-Australian". Did you realise that there is only one other nation that uses that phrase, that prefixes it's nation with an "un" to attach the notion of betrayal to its citizens' own behaviour. Worried about that? I would be - and so should you. I also care about Australia, and its image in the world. The members of the Australian fourth estate pee me off becuase they often present a twisted, bitter, bought-off face of this country and I dislike that. They are also craven and useless and they avoid any serious discussion on the behviour of this country's goverment with respect to its international partners and the vested interests that control many, many aspects of life here. Yep, I care about that, and yes, I think you should too. (and no, I am NOT a bleeding heart liberal)

Page 21 - Excerpts - how the world saw the big issues. (Royal wedding - very selective examples - ALL extremely negative). The Guardian - the only republican angle they can find.FGSake. Page 13 - Maunday service - "it's probably the thought that counts". The subtext is there - again. She's a royal - incredibly wealthy, let them eat cake etc...(thanks Pabs) Page 17 - "Kiss for the kingdom" - the entire article is about how Middleton is considered a commoner, and thus reflects the class riven society that is the Uk. It's an outmoded concept but one which the Age would like to perpetuate as it has its own vision of the country. Yet again, this article manages to crowbar in the issue of a republican alternative to the celebrations. And you say there is no agenda???????? What I'm challenging you to do over the next 3 months is to post any example of British culture reported in the Australian press which is positive and a fair reflection of real life for the vast majority of people in that country. Now compare those examples with the number of damning critiques, some contemporary, some historical. Then set these next to the equvalent examples for the USA and China. I've been doing it for the past year. It's just inexplicable.

Pablo, disappointed with this, from you. Despite their nominal ability to dissolve parliament, who do you think exerts more significantly more influence on the people of the UK and Australia? - the Royal SaxyCoburgs or the Media Groups and the banking cartels that they serve? Think Rupert Murdoch and get serious. Honestly, I despair at times.

No, they were not.

Going out now Parley but will post them in the morning. I see the posters are lining up in their partisan positions - and yes Parley you are one of them. Crikey - what kind of sad fantasist do you think I am that i would simply invent an angle to support my OWN perceptions? I have many, many positive things to say about Australia, but the press here, generally speaking, is a disgrace and very much controlled by vested interests with thinly veiled agendas. And if you don't realise that then I suggest you do a bit more reading.

So, entirely true to form, the Royal wedding looms large and the ever reliably spiteful Australian press have weighed in with their filthy hob nailed boots. Now let me get a few things straight..... I am no lover of inherited privilege, or of a society based on class strata and I find the notion of the divine right of kings absurd......however..... A constitional monarchy has proven over time to have many advantages and it tends to foster very stable, democratic nations. The Fairfax media group would appear to disagree with this notion (or wilfully wish to ignore it). Not content with spitting Republican blood at any and all links with the mother country it has now taken to sniping and sneering at the very core of British history and its customs. What the Age does not understand is that the monarchy, whether it dies out or not (and personally i have republican leanings and so hope it does), has left an indelible mark on the history and customs of the United kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland. We can not erase our past, we cannot pretend what we are not (though the Australian press make a damned fine attempt, regularly) and we cannot re-write history. As a fairly new Australian citizen (dualled with GB) I should like to say the following to Fairfax and Newscorp. By all means pursue your Republican agendas and unshackle yourself from the historical ties that bind. Party on in your entirely undeserved mining boom. Feel free to rejoice at your mother country's relative decline. Continue to throw yourself like a desperate syphillitic whore at the clay feet of a bankrupted state which executes its own citizens, has one of the biggest divides between rich and poor in the developed world and which allows its citizens to arm themselves. Meanwhile, ask no questions of the tryrannical injustices which perpetuate in your second largest trading partner (oh yes, the PRC is an honourable institution which cares deeply about its countrymen and their human rights. Handy that they buy a lot of rocks too). Yes, continue to do all of that. What's really important though is that you continue to highlight the wicked inequity of monarchy. Unless of course, it's a Tassie girl and she's marrying into the Danish Royal family. In which case, it's different - isn't it mate. Then, it's a fairytale. Boils my pesh - in case you hadn't noticed. Did anyone else read the 3 articles In the Age which referenced the British monarchy today? Does no one else pick up on the rabid anti British sentiment? Do they EVER write anything positive about the UK (and I mean - EVER??). I really wish Australian people of British descent would put an end to this. If we were Italian or Greek or Lebanese it would never be allowed. Grrrrrr......

Hmmm, I wouldn't say it is particularly "English" - I think Melburnians are very proud of their city and like to think it is unique - a kind of European Australia (rather than English). I guess the weather thing is relative....I'm from the north east of England so I still think the weather here is perfectly mild!! I also appreciate the seasons, the leaves falling, the gradual temperature wind down/up etc... I knew a girl who moved here from Brisbane. When I asked her why she decided on Melbourne she said "I have spent my life in shorts, t shirts, thongs and summer dresses - I wanted to wear a coat and a scarf for part of the year". I guess for some the non stop sub tropical heat of Queensland might work, but I think many imagine they can hack it, then find out they actually crave the variety of the seasons.

Ok, bit contentious, but having spent a fair bit of time in all the major Australian cities (except Perth) I reckon Melbourne should be touted as the best choice for all new UK arrivals. Obviously your Australian destination may be dictated by family or job opportunities but if you do have a free hand then I think Melbourne is the clear winner. One of the things I have learned over the years here is that many ex-pats arrive in Australia thinking they want a fully outdoor life-style, but very few of them adapt happily to a consistently different climate. I expect many look at Melbourne (or Tassie for that matter) and think "hmmm, why would I possibly move to Melbs, when I could be in Sydney, Perth or Brisse", but I think after a certain age, your climate control has programmed limits. Melbourne, despite some obvious faults, is best suited to the British personality - it is variously warm, cold, rainy and very hot, has proper seasons, is sport obsessed, retains a sense of community through its collection of villages feel, has significant European influence/architecture, is 'arty/cultured' by comparison to the rest of Australia, still has some proper pubs, likes a pie and a pint but also has the fine dining, great beaches out of the cities, beautiful parks, vineyeards etc... And most of all, despite the creeping gentrification, most of the people here aren't too up themselves or pretentious and you can be yourself (I think Melburnians get the UK sense of humour better than other parts of Australia). I'm probably a bit biased as i chose to settle here, but there you go. Anyone agree/disagree?