derren7

Hi Aaron, Well, the first month was a write off because as my wife got a job almost immediately I was tasked with getting us set up ie finding somewhere to live, bank accounts, tax file numbers, getting the kids into school etc. I had to turn down a job offer as I had no cover for the kids. I was also being a bit picky because I don't like domestic or service work. Commercial and industrial installation work is my thing. I eventually found work with a small company called Wire Not electrical who took me on for a specific project of modifying shipping containers for use as offices, kitchens, laundries, toilets etc on mining campsites. In between these projects I did have to do their domestic service work. That work dried up after about 18 months and then I was out of work for a further 3 months with a full licence. Eventually I found work through an agency for 1 weeks work which turned into 10 months worth of work. The company I was hosted with were keen to take me on, but they lost 2 big tenders and they had to lay off a lot of their own staff. That was at the beginning of this year. I was then out of work for a further 2 months but as my Mum was over from the UK for a visit then I wasn't trying too hard for about a month. In March I got another 4 weeks worth of work with another agency and I'm still working there now with the prospect of another 2 months of work there. The company I am hosted with, Arnold's, have asked to submit my Resume/CV with the prospect of long term employment and the company I was hosted with last year, Ryan Wilks, have recently contacted me with the prospect of taking me on. I don't want to worry you, as Chris at QET explained to me, some people find a job straight away and others have to be more persistent. It did get me down a bit when I was out of work but when I did get back to work I found there were a lot more people in the same boat as me, so I knew it wasn't just me. It has been quiet in Brisbane for the last couple of years but there does seem to be more activity now and with some large scale projects being rolled out, including the Commonwealth games being held on the Gold Coast in a few years time then I think you should be OK. Also, what I think has been happening over the last few years is that as the mining boom has eased, mining personnel have been flooding the local markets. Again, don't stress too much as I'm sure you will find work. Do what I did and register with every agency going, apply to as many companies as possible even if they're not advertising and whilst I didn't harass the agencies I certainly kept in constant contact with them. The squeaky wheel gets the oil and all that. It's unlikely that you will secure anything from the UK but you can use sites like seek.com.au, indeed.com.au and gumtree to gauge the market. One thing you will need to get will be a construction induction card (white or blue card). You won't get any work without it. Costs about $80 and can be done online. Also, once you get your full licence you'll have to do a CPR/LVR course which costs around $100 and has to be done annually, although, if you find work with a company then they usually pay for this. also, I think I paid around $1400 for the course with QET but that was 3 years ago. Again, best of luck and feel free to keep asking questions. Regards Derren

Hey mate, I used QET to get my licence a few years back. It's a run by Chris Williamson, a good bloke, who runs the company from his home in Coopers Plains on Brisbane's south side. It's a correspondence course where you study at home and at your own pace, but Chris is available if you need help. I had to fill in a log book for 4 months as I had, the now defunct, ARTC. If you have an OTSR then I think it takes a bit longer, and the 1000 hours mentioned above would equate to around 6 months. The log book itself was just a school exercise book I bought from Officeworks or some other shop. I had a one day assessment at Chris' house where I did the theory in his office/study, and the practical in his garage. The theory involved completing two fairly straightforward maximum demand calculations and finding clauses in the wiring regs pertaining to certain situations. Finding the clauses isn't that hard but it is time consuming flicking back and forth through the regs. There were a few other questions but I can't remember them. but I do remember they weren't overly tricky. The practical involved going through the testing procedure and finding faults that Chris puts on his testing rig. Before this, he took me out into the street to a green pillar that supplies 2 houses with an underground supply (most houses here have an overhead supply). He asked me which fuse I needed to remove to isolate his house from the supply. It isn't labelled so I had to work out which one to remove. A heads up, it isn't a case of just turning everything in the house off an using an ammeter to find which cable has no load. Another heads up, before you do anything, risk assessment, risk assessment, risk assessment. Took me ten minutes to remember that little beauty. Chris told me he's had people standing there for nearly an hour before they remembered too. Chris certainly won't spoon feed you any of the answers but he will encourage you and be patient. The hardest part will be finding work. It took me 3 months to find work. Hopefully you'll find one sooner but persistence will pay off. Best of luck Any questions, feel free to ask. Regards Derren

Hi mate, yeah, the link doesn't appear to work so you'll have to type address in your address bar. Sorry, my links used to work here all the time. Maybe it's being blocked because it is a rival expats forum. Regards Derren

Hi mate, I never had to go down this route as I used a different pathway. Anyway, here's a link to a site which may give you an idea of what to expect. It's an old thread, but I don't think the format for the assessment would have changed greatly. The link, britishexpats.com/forum/showthread.php?t=667546 It appears the link isn't working, so you'll need to have to type the address out. Best of luck, Derren

Hi there, It has always been the case that OTSR applicants have had to do 'on the job' gap training and fill in a log book in SA, as opposed to ARTC applicants, who can do the short course, and then apply for a full licence without having to fill in a log book. What has changed, a few years back, was that a lot of OTSR applicants used to apply for an ARTC once their visa was granted, and then they could do the 2 week course in SA and get a full SA licence. The TRA closed this loophole by effectively barring OTSR applicants from applying. In theory, my understanding of the current situation, is that OTSR applicants can still apply for an ARTC but will still have to do 12 months training!! Bizarre to say the least. It makes the application a futile process as you could then apply for the full licence anyway. I wouldn't be surprised if the process for ARTC applicants, in SA, will be aligned with that of OTSR applicants, as has happened in WA. I do feel sorry for OTSR applicants. You have to go through a lot more assessment and examination than ARTC applicants, and then you have to do it all again once you arrive in OZ. Anyway, best of luck and it may be worth contacting PEER in Adelaide just to see what the current situation is. The goalposts do constantly change, although usually not for the better. Kind Regards, Derren

Hi Paris, basically, it seems that you have the sequence in the correct order. Now to answer your specific questions. Firstly, temporary or permanent residency. What type of residency are you seeking? A 457 is a temporary, 4 year visa whereby a company sponsors you because a company cannot find local labour to fill a position. This visa is very hard to obtain from overseas unless you have a niche skill set. Another type of temporary visa is the Working Holiday Visa which allows you to work whilst travelling around Australia for one, maybe two years if you meet certain requirements. A permanent residency visa, which I suspect is the visa you should seek or want, is the visa that allows you to stay in Australia with no restriction, and for as long as you want. I applied for my ARTC a few years ago now. You need to supply as much evidence as possible ie. detailed references describing the work that you carried out and the tools that you used. Also, you need to send in all trade certifications and any other documentation that supports your claim to be an electrician. If all documents are in a foreign language they need to be translated into English. Don't send original documents. All documents must be certified as true copies of the originals by someone such as a Justice of the Peace. To give you an idea of detailed references follow this LINK. If you have anymore questions then please feel free to ask. Best of luck. Kind Regards, Derren p.s if, eventually, you do migrate to Oz, and successfully obtain an ARTC, then currently, I believe it is still possible to do a course with PEER VEET in Adelaide, South Australia and after successfully completing their short course you can obtain an SA licence with no 'on the job' gap training, no log book. This licence can then be used to obtain another state licence, should you choose to live in another state, under the terms of the Mutual Recognition Act. Also, it is my understanding, that in Victoria, holders of an ARTC do not have to undertake ' on the job' gap training. To confuse matters even further, it appears that NSW do not recognise the ARTC at all!!!. The whole system is a mess. They really need to streamline the whole process and provide an unambiguous pathway for overseas electricians to obtain a full licence.

Hi Don, You need to provide as much evidence as possible. Think of it along the lines of the TRA thinking that you're a chancer who is not a spark at all. You need to prove to them that you are. Alongside all trade certificates you must provide detailed references which must have a company letterhead, and describe the kind of work that you did, the tools that you used and the environments you worked in. It can't just say "Mr Logan worked as an electrician and was great worker blah, blah, blah. If you can't get a reference from your past employers then you 'll need to write a Statutory Declaration explaining why you can't get one and explaining yourself, the kind of work that you did. The most crucial aspect of your application is proving that you served an apprenticeship, otherwise you'll have to prove at least 7 years experience. I had to provide 5 Stat Decs . My apprenticeship employer couldn't provide one as their records didn't go back far enough. Luckily, as my apprenticeship was overseen by the JIB, I requested a letter stating that I had served a formal apprenticeship, which cost me 15 pounds. If you do submit Stat Decs then you'll need to try to back them up with supporting documentation such as pay slips, p60. I sent in copies to a couple of college reports from my apprenticeship. Here's a LINK showing various layouts of references and stat decs that were used for successful ARTC applications. Don't send originals of anything. Everything must be photocopied and certified as true copies. This can be done free by a Justice of the Peace. If the TRA are not satisfied with the amount of evidence you provide then they may do one of a few things, straight out rejection, assess you with a technical interview, ask you to perform a practical trade test or refer you to a Registered Training Organisation (RTO), to assess and retrain you. Don't get too worried about this. As long as you send in all your trade certs and detailed references I'm sure you'll be fine. I got assessed as an electrical mechanic because of my install experience. I don't know what your background is, but if you have both install and maintenance experience then you can apply for both fitter and mechanic for your ARTC. I'd also be wary of using the term engineer. In Australia, to be classed as an engineer, you must have a degree and they might refer you to Engineers Australia, who assess oversea engineers, and if you haven't got a degree then you'll get rejected by them and then you'll be in limbo. As for the line of work you're in now, to be honest, I'm not 100% sure. Australian employers love their tickets and licences. I think you'll need to consider applying for a fitters accreditation for the machine breakdown and PPM aspects. As for the management and H&S aspects, well, there will be tickets for those but I guess you could tailor your Resume(CV) to address those criteria, and look on seek.com.au to see what jobs are available and see what the selection criteria are for differing companies. You will need to, at some point, obtain a construction induction (commonly known as a white card or blue card). This is a must , you won't get any jobs without it. It can be done online for under $100 and is a perpetual card in that it has no expiry date. You will need to get CPR/LVR. This is a must for all electricians. This has to be face to face, can be done for under $100 but must be renewed every 6 months (well in QLD it does). As for the WA/SA recognition. I can't be 100% sure, but I've seen nothing to suggest that you can't. Unless the staff at PEER have changed recently they should be able to advise. However, each state clearly states that they are bound by the Mutual Recognition Act to recognise other state licences. Mate, when I went through this process, I was literally pulling my hair out. I'm just glad that I didn't have to do the Vetassess stuff. You have to do all the stuff for the ARTC plus practical and theoretical assessments and have no choice but to do 'on the job' training. For now, and I know it's important to consider your job prospects and all the other sh1t you're going to have to deal with, I would focus on getting your ARTC. Without this you're stumped and nothing else will matter. It took me several months to compile my application. The reasons for this were, that I had loads of time to do and just chipped away at it, I had several employers and I had to ring around, some could supply references, some could not, for various reasons. Again, best of luck. Please feel free to ask as many questions as you like. That's what this site is here for and God knows where I would be without other peoples guidance on this site and others. Regards Derren

Yeah, what AJ stated. In SA, they don't make a distinction between a fitter and a mechanic as opposed to QLD and WA. Don't know how the other states operate. If you're not already aware,basically, a fitter is a maintenance spark and a mechanic is an installation spark. Another thing worth pointing out, although it's not pertinent to your situation, but might be to others reading this, is that there have been problems obtaining a Victorian and Queensland licence via this route. This is a clear violation of the Mutual Recognition Act, and I believe that the Queensland ESO have had to back down and issue licences when this has been pointed out to them. They're probably well aware that they would have lost any cases taken to a tribunal. Another thing worth pointing out is that an OTSR applicant has to do 12 months gap training in SA. Again, best of luck. Kind Regards, Derren

Hi Don, I live in Brisbane, so I can't speak with authority on the situation in WA. I don't think anyone can as the goal posts are forever changing and you'll probably need to speak directly to Energy Safety to clarify the situation. My understanding of the situation in WA is this: Up until a couple of years ago, maybe less, all sparks, whether they had an OTSR or an ARTC could do the two week course and then apply for a full licence. Then the rules were changed so that OTSR applicants had to do 12 months on the job gap training. A few months later the rules were changed again, so that ARTC applicants also had to the 12 months on the job gap training. Each state has their own requirements. Heck, NSW doesn't recognise the ARTC anymore even though it's nationally recognised document issued by an Australian Government institution. The national licensing scheme, designed to eliminate state licences, has been mothballed after years of consultation. The whole system is an inconsistent mess. The only solution I can offer is that you contact www.peer.com.au As far as I know at the moment, in South Australia, with an ARTC you can do a correspondence course from the UK, or go to Adelaide and attend classes if you prefer, and once you successfully completed the course you can apply for a South Australian licence. This can then be used to apply for an a full WA licence under the terms of the Mutual Recognition Act. If you do the correspondence course, you will have to, at some point, actually go to Adelaide to sit the exam and apply for the licence. I would contact PEER as they appear to be approachable and know the ins and outs of the forever changing state of affairs. Best of luck. Kind Regards Derren

Hi Spoony, Yeah, the whole system is an inconsistent mess, but it is what it is. I don't know if you can apply from the UK, you'll probably need to contact the ESO to clarify that but I'm fairly certain that they wouldn't post it to the UK, and you would need to provide a Queensland address if they did accept overseas applications. I know it's a different organisation but when I applied to the TRA for my ARTC, I was able to apply from the UK as long as you provided an Australian address. I was very lucky, just a few weeks later they stopped overseas applications, tripled the application fee and increased the processing time from one month to three months!!! As for the job situation, I don't want to discourage you but it does seem very quiet at the moment. I've been out of work since Xmas. There is talk of an upturn this year but that's all crystal ball stuff IMO. I haven't been too aggressive in trying to find a job as I've taken the opportunity to upskill by attending courses such as data/comms etc. Once you get here you will need to persevere and it will get frustrating. Hopefully, you'll strike lucky straight away. But be warned, the recruitment process is very slow and you'll get very little feedback. The agencies say they'll ring you back but they never do. And rarely do you get any replies if you're unsuccessful, it is just assumed that if you don't hear anything back after a few weeks then you haven't been considered for the position. One job I applied for, with BHP Billiton, they did send a rejection email one year after I applied for the job!!!. Again, I don't want to discourage you. I can only speak from personal experience and I just want you to be prepared for a potentially frustrating experience. Feel free to ask more questions and best of luck. Kind regards Derren

Hi Spoony, I live in Brisbane and went through all this rigmarole a couple of years ago. Just to clarify a few points. It is not a restricted electrical licence you need to apply for. You need to apply for an Electrical Work Training Permit. A restricted electrical licence is intended for tradies who are not electricians ie, plumbers or HVACs who need to do a simple disconnect/reconnect for their respective appliances. To apply for a EWTP you DO NOT need to have CPR/LVR certification. You will need to get this once you have completed your gap training and are ready to apply for your full unrestricted licence. However, you will need to get a construction induction white card (similar to CSCS). It might have changed but I think you can do this online from the UK with a company called bluedog training. And this is my reply to someone on another forum about the steps I went through to get my full QLd Electrical Mechanic licence: Hi all, This is how I gained my full Qld licence. I arrived in Brisbane in Jan 2012 . Firstly, as has already been stated, you need to apply for your training permit from the ESO. I then contacted Chris Williamson at www.qet.edu.au. He is very friendly and helpful and used to work for the ESO and still has connections there so if there any problems there he can usually get things sorted. He is a one man business working from home. I did his self study course which you can work through at your own pace. This course cost me around $1700. That costing was based on me having an ARTC as opposed to Vetassess. If you have Vetassess it will cost more because you have to do more modules. I do not know why this is so. Initially, I paid a 20% deposit and paid the full fee on the day of my practical and theory test at his home. Now the hard part. Finding a job. It took me 4 months to find a job. Mainly because of finding somewhere to live, getting kids into school etc etc. I sent of my resume to virtually every contractor in Brisbane whether they were advertising or not. Eventually, a small company took me on and recently laid me of before Xmas due to a downturn in work. Even now with my full licence I am finding it hard to find work. The past few years have been tough for tradies so you really will have to persevere. Once you do find a job then you will have to fill out a log book with 4 months worth of varied work. It can't just be solar or just wiring switchboards or any other specialization. It must be varied. The log book can just be a school exercise book and you get it signed off by a qualified sparky, week by week. So, in summary, Apply for training permit, find a job, do the correspondence course, get 4 months worth of job experience, do your 1 day practical and theory test and then you can apply for your full licence. Again, it might be different for Vetassess applicants as I had an ARTC. Once you have your full licence then you will have to do a CPR/LVR course which is usually a 3/4 hour course. This has to be renewed every 6 months. Also, when applying for your training permit it would be advisable to get a construction induction card, commonly known as a blue or white card. This can be done online, even from the UK if I'm not mistaken. Other things you will need to get are the AS/NZS 3000;2007 wiring rules and a copy of AS/NZS 3008 cable selection both of which are in excess of $100. The CPR/LVR and white card courses can be done for under $100. If you want to get on commercial construction sites then you will probably need to get a 'Working at Heights" and an EWP course. This is what I used to do in the UK and I'm trying to get into here in Brisbane but it's very hard at the moment. I've always hated domestic work and loathe it with a passion now. I also worked on industrial sites in the UK but to that here you would need hazardous areas certification and wondering whether to do this course at a cost in excess of $2000 especially when all the jobs advertised state 'must have cert and experience" and when they say experience it usually means 'local experience'. Anyway, hope this helps and feel free to ask any questions. My answers may be somewhat vague as the past 2 years are a bit of a blur now. Regards Derren.

Hi all, I arrived in Brisbane in Jan 2012 and as soon as I arrived I had a flare up on my hands. To cut along story short, the condition got a lot worse and over the next 18 months it progressed to inflammations all over my upper torso,face and neck. After seeing numerous Doctors who liked to prescribe, I eventually went to an allergy clinic and after testing found out that I was allergic to a substance called methylisothiazolinone. It's a preservative found in many cleaning agents, sunscreens, shampoos etc,etc, Anyway, after spending $400 to a see a specialist and finding out what my allergic reaction was to, I have to say that was the best money I ever spent. My condition has completely cleared away. See a specialist. GP's are good at prescribing but can't solve the root problem in this scenario. Regards Derren

Hi David, There is a requirement to have RCDs inspected within the scope of the AS/NZS 3760:2010which also applies to portable equipment. In a normal office environment then they should be tested for trip times every 2 years and every 6 months for the integral test button. The following link should help : www.tagteamaustralia.com/appliance-test-tag/ Regards Derren

Hi there, With an ARTC you only have to provide as much documentary proof as possible ie certificates, detailed job references etc. It does not require a trade test unless they feel that you have not provided enough evidence to prove that you a trained electrician. If he has served a formal apprenticeship then everything should be fine. If not, then he will have prove at least 7 years experience in the trade. You will have to be residing in Australia to apply for one. You used to be able to apply for one from overseas (I did) but this was changed some time ago. Once he has the ARTC (and this could take anything up to 4 months to process depending on their workload) then he will be able to undertake gap training. Up until several months ago it was possible to gain a full WA licence after completing a 2 week course. It now appears (and it's still not clear what is required) that all overseas trained sparks are required to complete 12 months on the job gap training and fill in a log book. Hopefully, someone can clarify but you might want to contact Energy Safety in WA as they issue the licences. The quickest way to get any sort of licence is to go to PEER in Adelaide, get a SA licence after a short course and then apply for a WA licence under mutual recognition, but these loopholes and short cuts may well be closed. I'm in QLD and I had to fill in a log book for 4 months, study in my own time (not easy with 3 young children and my wife working shifts) and find a job to fill in the log book (not easy to find a job in QLD right now, with or without a full licence). Best of luck Regards Derren

Hi there, Have you previously held a licence in Oz. If so then you should contact the licencing department of the State which issued it as you would surely be able to reapply for one. If haven't held one then you may be in possession of an ARTC (Australian Recognised Trade Certificate). If you haven't got one of these then you will need to get one in order to undertake gap training to get a full licence. In Victoria, I believe you have to do a full 12 months training to get a full licence. In Brisbane, I know from personal experience you can get one after 4 months. Having said that it may be easier to find a job in Melbourne than Brisbane. Regards Derren