velden Posted November 3, 2009 Share Posted November 3, 2009 Please help. You are the best people to help me because you know what Australia is like and most of you know what Europe is like. We live in Holland (Dutch husband, 2 young sons both born in Australia but lived most of their live in the Netherlands). In the Netherlands we have a beautiful old farm house with 4000 sqm land. We are 30 minutes drive to Dusseldorf (we are on the German border). The kids (5 and 6 years old) can ride their bikes to school, to football and to tennis. They have many friends. There is no violence anywhere around. The local village (10 minute walk) is cute and quiet. the local town (5 minute drive, 25 minute bike ride) is busy enough with nice restaurants AND (I know you understand this) proper bars where we can go with the whole family. We have heaps of festivals, bonfire nights, beer-vat rolling. you know don't you?. We can ski in Austria every year, we go to Lake Como for Spring holidays, Paris sometimes for lunch. The only negatives are 1) I am not fully "integrated", this is mainly because we are in the clichey South where friendships date back to pre-school; 2) the weather (it's the same as London) and 3) some people will see this as a positive but I think Holland inspires you to be average - competitive is definetly frowned upon. in Australia we have a house in Broadbeach Waters that we bought in February, on the canels, nice house, great pool. Australia wins for 1) the friendliness and 2) the weather - including the outdoor lifestyle. Should we move back? I have been gone 9 years (excluding the time back in Australia to give birth - no home birth for me). I used to live in Balmain, Sydney. Should we move back to our house on the Gold Coast, will I like it? (we have spent a bit of time there on holidays - I love Byron, the Hinterland, Currumbin, but we picked Broadbeach Waters because I really like being able to walk to things) Please help, it's really a hard decision. I think my husband would prefer the Netherlands but he is ok with Australia if that is what I want (he fits in anywhere easily). We are going primarily for me because while I love Holland on one hand I am not fully settled. I am so scared of ruining the great life that the boys have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest swandog Posted November 3, 2009 Share Posted November 3, 2009 Hi Velden, As an Aussie about the head back to Sydney from the UK with my new English bride, I would say go home! In saying that, I don't have kids so can't fully appreciate the effect this might have on your kids. However, having spent my childhood holidays at my grandparents' holiday flats across the road from the Broadbeach State School, I can assure you your children will have a great life there as well. I know Broadbeach has become really commercial and maybe is no longer the quainter and quieter alternative to Surfers it once was, but it must still rate amongst the most popular places in Australia (and therefore the world) to live! Sorry. I probably have made your decsion harder rather than easier. Ultimately, it sounds like you are in a win/win situation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
velden Posted November 3, 2009 Author Share Posted November 3, 2009 Thanks Swandog, It is home isn't it. I think we will go, we have made November decision month. So I can question things for the next few weeks but come November 30 we will make a firm decision to either go or stay. The Netherlands is a great place but the second I land on Australian soil and some nice customs agent takes a look at my bag and says "darl, that looks too heavy for you, let me lift in onto the belt for you" I feel happier. Do you think your English wife will like Australia? my husband does but his family (parents and sister) doesn't. They think it's tacky and primative (and they haven't even seen the Gold Coast yet). I am already wondering how I can show them around without venturing near Surfers (easy) or driving down the Gold Coast Highway (harder). My family (Sydney based) also look down a little on the area we have chosen. I guess this makes my decision harder - not having anyone's support. The decision is 100% mine, it would be good to have someone share the responsibility but that's not always life. I'm not criticising my husband with this - his ideal would be to stay in Europe so I am lucky that he is willing to give up his country for me. My husband gave me his requirements if he was to move; near the beach, warm weather, didn't want to feel "remote", boat tied up in the backyard, kids closeby to school and sports, nice good-sized house, good restaurants and nice people. Based on that I picked the Gold Coast, short-listed the houses and together we selected one. The Northern beaches of Sydney was first choice but we couldn't afford to be on the water. I'm glad that other Australians are going back home. I read somewhere about an exodus of young Aussie talent that never returns to our fair shores. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest smileykylie Posted November 3, 2009 Share Posted November 3, 2009 Hi Velden I am another Aussie returning home after several years abroad, mainly because I want to be nearer to family. Sounds like broadwater is a good choice for YOUR family, it's a shame your family look down on that as surely they would want you back where they could have an easy flight up to see you?? Also it does not matter what his family think it is YOUR family that matters and what is right for you all. Remember nothin is permanent and if it does not work out you are not legally obligated to stay there!! all the best with what you decide. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Metoo Posted November 3, 2009 Share Posted November 3, 2009 Please help. You are the best people to help me because you know what Australia is like and most of you know what Europe is like. We live in Holland (Dutch husband, 2 young sons both born in Australia but lived most of their live in the Netherlands). In the Netherlands we have a beautiful old farm house with 4000 sqm land. We are 30 minutes drive to Dusseldorf (we are on the German border). The kids (5 and 6 years old) can ride their bikes to school, to football and to tennis. They have many friends. There is no violence anywhere around. The local village (10 minute walk) is cute and quiet. the local town (5 minute drive, 25 minute bike ride) is busy enough with nice restaurants AND (I know you understand this) proper bars where we can go with the whole family. We have heaps of festivals, bonfire nights, beer-vat rolling. you know don't you?. We can ski in Austria every year, we go to Lake Como for Spring holidays, Paris sometimes for lunch. The only negatives are 1) I am not fully "integrated", this is mainly because we are in the clichey South where friendships date back to pre-school; 2) the weather (it's the same as London) and 3) some people will see this as a positive but I think Holland inspires you to be average - competitive is definetly frowned upon. in Australia we have a house in Broadbeach Waters that we bought in February, on the canels, nice house, great pool. Australia wins for 1) the friendliness and 2) the weather - including the outdoor lifestyle. Should we move back? I have been gone 9 years (excluding the time back in Australia to give birth - no home birth for me). I used to live in Balmain, Sydney. Should we move back to our house on the Gold Coast, will I like it? (we have spent a bit of time there on holidays - I love Byron, the Hinterland, Currumbin, but we picked Broadbeach Waters because I really like being able to walk to things) Please help, it's really a hard decision. I think my husband would prefer the Netherlands but he is ok with Australia if that is what I want (he fits in anywhere easily). We are going primarily for me because while I love Holland on one hand I am not fully settled. I am so scared of ruining the great life that the boys have. Hello Velden, It seems that you have a near perfect life in the Netherlands. If I was you, I would be in no hurry to change anything just for the sake of change. Could you give it a couple of years and then re-evaluate your situation. This may sound strange advice coming from someone who is currently planning a move back to Australia from the UK, but, we do not live in a pretty idylic villiage, in a crime free area, with Lake como, Paris and skiing in Austria at our doorstep. (if only) This is probably not what you want to hear but as they say "if it aint broke, don't fix it" Good luck whatever you decide Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest flipflop Posted November 3, 2009 Share Posted November 3, 2009 As an Aussie myself I would stay in Europe 100% if I was you. With your lifestyle you would be mad to move. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andyhus Posted November 3, 2009 Share Posted November 3, 2009 You have a very understanding husband, I think only you can decided on what you think is going to be best for your family unit as a whole. Go with what you believe is right for you and your whole family. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
velden Posted November 3, 2009 Author Share Posted November 3, 2009 Thanks for the advise so far. I'm going to count up the "go" and "stay"'s and decide that way :-). I have to add that I live in a dialect area (strong dialect close enough to a different language), you don't get dialect lessons you get Dutch lessons. I've been in this spot for 5 years and up until a few months back when I quit my job I have been locked away with other expats in companies that dictate English as the language to use. When you work many hours and socialise with these people more than others... well... it's an excuse but my Dutch is terrible (terrible) and this is my main reason for wanting to leave. I have tried classes, private lessons, books and tapes but linguistically I am... well... retarded. Now that I am not working and don't want to go back to that line of work (no work life balance and thats saying something for the Netherlands) I'm a bit stuck. I can finish my PhD (in Complexity Theory - so like 'who would!'), I can't retrain because most undergrad is in Dutch. i can't start my own business. I can't stay home forever. I totally agree with the people saying that I have to consider MY family and whats best for them. but if Holland is 90% good for them and 20% good for me and Australia is 70% good for them and 80% good for me. Who wins? is it 290% versus 290%. how do I make the decision when it will be better for me and it will be a little worse for them. I do like Holland, I really do. If I wasn't challenged (really, really this is a big issue that I don't seem to be able to Master) by the language I would be a pig in mud. Am I being selfish??? (say it gently please - even though I'm an aussie) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest smileykylie Posted November 3, 2009 Share Posted November 3, 2009 you are not being selfish at all - not being able to speak the language is terribly isolating and you need to think of this in the long term for you as you need to be somewhere you can be yourself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
velden Posted November 3, 2009 Author Share Posted November 3, 2009 Thank you Smiley Kylie. I just have this stupid feeling that I would be putting my needs ahead of my kids - which is something difficult for mothers to do :-). But I also know that if we are all in Australia then I can help them with their school work etc. and be much more a part of their "external" lives. I was teaching them to read English but now that they have started learning to read Dutch at school I have to stop as it gets too confusing for them. My husband reads with them in the evening - it's something I wish I could also do. I practise my Dutch with them - offering to read Dutch stories etc but they say "mummy you are terrible I'm going to get an English book for you", it's very funny but also a little sad. I really do thank you for not making me feel like a selfish cow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest swandog Posted November 3, 2009 Share Posted November 3, 2009 If you're not happy, Velden, then ultimately your family will suffer. Only as strong as it's weakest link and all that. Your kids will LOVE the Gold Coast. There just isn't a comparison when it comes to bringing up kids. No amount of ski trips can compete with the QLD outdoors lifestyle. As a school teacher who has taught in both Australia and Europe (the UK), I know where I would want my kids growing up when I eventually have them. Just hope the Mrs agrees! As for primitive and tacky, grrrrrr. Don't get me started. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest smileykylie Posted November 3, 2009 Share Posted November 3, 2009 velden - don't be so hard on yourself (most mothers seem to be) the fact you are asking complete strangers about the situation shows how much this decision means to you and how much thought you are giving it. You deserve to feel settled and be yourself as well and you need to look at you will manage not being able to speak the same language as your children in the long term. Like you have said you are becoming isolated from them in some areas already and you are obviously a devoted mum who wants the best for your kids. Remember you aren't moving them to the third world (despite what your family and some on this forum think) you will be moving them to a lovely sunny and fun place. The beaches where you are going are stunning and there will be heaps for your kids to do as well. ps I am from sydney as well and could not personally live in queensland - too hot for me!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest treesea Posted November 4, 2009 Share Posted November 4, 2009 Mmm, Broadbeach Waters. Nice looking place, but we lived in Surfers for a while when I was a kid. That wouldn't be my choice of where I would like to bring up my children. Balmain was a great place to live when we lived in Sydney. If we were planning to move back to Sydney, (the only place I would be prepared to move back to - we spent most of our time in Melbourne, which wasn't to my taste, but OH wasn't into Sydney) I'd certainly take a good look at Balmain - down by the water, near the main ferry terminal. I can understand you feeling isolated because of the language - I've felt like that living in the Middle East. What I would suggest would be a compromise. Rather than going all the way to Australia, how about moving to an English speaking country nearby? I recommend Scotland. Edinburgh is a great place to live, a lot less rain than The Netherlands, it's November, we don't have central heating but are all still wandering around the house in bare feet, (Britain doesn't really seem to do the winters I grew up in over 30 years ago anymore), you'll have bilingual children (something I feel guilty about because we don't visit my OH's country often enough for our children to achieve this easily), Aussies are made very welcome here even if they do think anyone choosing Scotland over Australia is a bit mad. Plus it doesn't cost much to come over here for a visit. Why is it not possible to start a business in The Netherlands? It's probably an excellent way to improve your language skills. Britain, unlike Australia, imho, is a GREAT place to be self employed. There's grants and assistance galore. And it's heaps more exciting than working for someone else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest siamsusie Posted November 4, 2009 Share Posted November 4, 2009 BBC - Weather Centre - World Weather - Average Conditions - Edinburgh Edinburgh's weather. Always interesting to make the comparison. Down on the scottish borders it was certainly warmer than Edinburgh, but my heating bills certainly told me the story lol. ss x Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest30038 Posted November 4, 2009 Share Posted November 4, 2009 Please help, it's really a hard decision. I think my husband would prefer the Netherlands but he is ok with Australia if that is what I want (he fits in anywhere easily). We are going primarily for me because while I love Holland on one hand I am not fully settled. I am so scared of ruining the great life that the boys have. That says it all.............."not fully settled". As long as you feel that way, you will never be truly happy. If you're never truly happy, then can you give of your best to your family, and they to you? If your hubby doesn't mind and "fits in anywhere easily" then it appears to me, that it will cost him little (of himself) to move, whereas staying where you are would be at considerable cost to yourself. I don't doubt that the kids would love the Gold Coast...............especially canal living............the canals are a bit warmer here than in Holland :yes: Good luck kev Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest treesea Posted November 4, 2009 Share Posted November 4, 2009 BBC - Weather Centre - World Weather - Average Conditions - Edinburgh Edinburgh's weather. Always interesting to make the comparison. Down on the scottish borders it was certainly warmer than Edinburgh, but my heating bills certainly told me the story lol. ss x I think this must depend where one lives in Edinburgh. We live close to the sea, near the Botanic gardens, and it seems really mild here temperature wise. Our winters seem a bit pathetic. The snow hasn't settled once in five years. North Edinburgh's idea of "rain" is usually a bit of a drizzle, or a 15 minute spat. Yet, on the other side of Edinburgh, just 8 miles south of us, and above the snow line, winter looks like Canada. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
velden Posted November 4, 2009 Author Share Posted November 4, 2009 Thank you all SO much. I can't believe people answered me (that's a bit sad isn't it). I think 'itcouldbeworse' summed things up very well. I just need to get over the guilt of "why am I so pathetic that I can't settle - i.e., speak Dutch". But some of the posts have made me see that it's just as bad for me to offer a partially happy mummy/wife. AGAIN BIG THANKS TO EVERYONE. YOU ARE SUPER KIND AND NICE PEOPLE. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest SunshineSmile Posted November 5, 2009 Share Posted November 5, 2009 Hi Velden.. Going to stick my oar in here.. read thru all ur posts and what shone out for me was these 2 things.. you sound BORED with your life and isolated by the language problem. You do not sound selfish in any way at all and your boys will thrive back in Oz I suspect just as they have in Holland. But what about you...Are You Thriving?????????????? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Ozcans Posted November 5, 2009 Share Posted November 5, 2009 Thanks for the advise so far. I'm going to count up the "go" and "stay"'s and decide that way :-). I have to add that I live in a dialect area (strong dialect close enough to a different language), you don't get dialect lessons you get Dutch lessons. I've been in this spot for 5 years and up until a few months back when I quit my job I have been locked away with other expats in companies that dictate English as the language to use. When you work many hours and socialise with these people more than others... well... it's an excuse but my Dutch is terrible (terrible) and this is my main reason for wanting to leave. I have tried classes, private lessons, books and tapes but linguistically I am... well... retarded. Now that I am not working and don't want to go back to that line of work (no work life balance and thats saying something for the Netherlands) I'm a bit stuck. I can finish my PhD (in Complexity Theory - so like 'who would!'), I can't retrain because most undergrad is in Dutch. i can't start my own business. I can't stay home forever. I totally agree with the people saying that I have to consider MY family and whats best for them. but if Holland is 90% good for them and 20% good for me and Australia is 70% good for them and 80% good for me. Who wins? is it 290% versus 290%. how do I make the decision when it will be better for me and it will be a little worse for them. I do like Holland, I really do. If I wasn't challenged (really, really this is a big issue that I don't seem to be able to Master) by the language I would be a pig in mud. Am I being selfish??? (say it gently please - even though I'm an aussie) This post has tipped the balance for me. I say go. :-) Good luck. Sue x Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest berlin Posted December 6, 2012 Share Posted December 6, 2012 Thank you all SO much. I can't believe people answered me (that's a bit sad isn't it). I think 'itcouldbeworse' summed things up very well. I just need to get over the guilt of "why am I so pathetic that I can't settle - i.e., speak Dutch". But some of the posts have made me see that it's just as bad for me to offer a partially happy mummy/wife. AGAIN BIG THANKS TO EVERYONE. YOU ARE SUPER KIND AND NICE PEOPLE. Hi Velden, I was reading your post and i got really curious what did you do. Did you move? The reason I'm asking is because i'm in kind of in the same situation. huge language barrier, i think it is ruining my life. Although no kids to worry about and single. So it's been a couple of years since you wrote here, i was really curious how your life turned out ? I'm kind of considering making a huge change, but not sure what to do yet.... In case you somehow check this post, let me know how tings turned out. Regards from Berlin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flag of convenience Posted December 6, 2012 Share Posted December 6, 2012 Are you considering leaving Berlin for OZ? I'd love to move the other way but then have lived in Germany before,but I hasten to add never Berlin. Are there particular reasons you wish to leave? I know language can be an issue and German is far more difficult than many folk believe,but like most things time and practice irons out the major difficulties. Are you Australian? Perhaps homesick? That being the case if haven't done so already come and look at how it really is first. If possible. I left France to come here,Aussie born,but away a long time to return to Australia in the 90s.It was easier then as prices were a steal. All the same within two years I was missing Europe very much. I have always found a void here that is in my case impossible to fill. These days I would suggest the difficulties are compounded with the high prices on everything. Rents and house purchase being the worse. Of course you know what's best in your individual situation and Berlin may not be suited ..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
calNgary Posted December 6, 2012 Share Posted December 6, 2012 Hi Berlin I dont think Velden has been on the forum for a couple of years, so you may better starting your own thread about your situation, as this one is quite old, i will close it.. Cal x Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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