Children - what happens if you/your partner decide to go home.....

HI

Me and my wife moved out with the children two years ago and left behind two older children from previous relationships to have a better life in oz,now my wife wants to go back with the children to spend time with her new granddaughter,we have not received our PR yet but should receive this in june. me and the children are having a great life in oz and i really want them to stay,could someone please explain if my wife can take the kids back without my consent due to us not being permanent residents or is their nothing i can do

HI

 

Me and my wife moved out with the children two years ago and left behind two older children from previous relationships to have a better life in oz,now my wife wants to go back with the children to spend time with her new granddaughter,we have not received our PR yet but should receive this in june. me and the children are having a great life in oz and i really want them to stay,could someone please explain if my wife can take the kids back without my consent due to us not being permanent residents or is their nothing i can do

What visa are you on and who is the main visa applicant?

HI

 

Me and my wife moved out with the children two years ago and left behind two older children from previous relationships to have a better life in oz,now my wife wants to go back with the children to spend time with her new granddaughter,we have not received our PR yet but should receive this in june. me and the children are having a great life in oz and i really want them to stay,could someone please explain if my wife can take the kids back without my consent due to us not being permanent residents or is their nothing i can do

No, she cannot take them back to live without your permission. Are you the main visa holder?

However, it is totally understandable that she wants to spend some time with her child and grand daughter back in the UK. Nothing wrong with a visit, surely?

HI

 

Me and my wife moved out with the children two years ago and left behind two older children from previous relationships to have a better life in oz,now my wife wants to go back with the children to spend time with her new granddaughter,we have not received our PR yet but should receive this in june. me and the children are having a great life in oz and i really want them to stay,could someone please explain if my wife can take the kids back without my consent due to us not being permanent residents or is their nothing i can do

Look on the internet there are lots of Law firms that give a free short consultation. Or contact "Relationships Australia", she cant take the kids out of Aus with out your approval if she does not intend to return. If it gets unpleasent a lawyer can put a hold on the childrens passports so they cant leave. I do encourage you to try to resolve this between your wife and yourself, getting involved in the AUstralian Family Court system is not only extreamly expencive but emotionally destroying for everyone involved.

If you can avoid the family court do it at all costs

The court we were involved in was told by a pysologist and my granddaughters own lawyer that she should not have to visit her father as there was no realtionship between them and forcing her to visit would be detrimental to her well being

The bloody Judge took no notice at all said she was sick of hearing kids who would not do as they were told and gave the father visitation rights !!

If you can avoid the family court do it at all costs

The court we were involved in was told by a pysologist and my granddaughters own lawyer that she should not have to visit her father as there was no realtionship between them and forcing her to visit would be detrimental to her well being

The bloody Judge took no notice at all said she was sick of hearing kids who would not do as they were told and gave the father visitation rights !!

100% agree the court reporter in our case recommended 50/50 access despite all the evidence pointing to serious emotional abuse of the children and serious lack of medical care of the children while on access, court reporter met the kids and parents once for 1/2 hour and based on that pushed the recommendation as this is now the "norm". Kids can only now be described as an emotional mess and not a thing can be done unless we can find several hundred thousend to go back to court and even then I doubt it would improve the situation. Kids have gone from A+ students to D grade students. Other issue is once you are allocated a Judge you are stuck with that judge till the kids turn 18, so if you get one who appears bias towards one parent well again nothing you can do.

HI

We originally came over on a business visa in my name but we did not fulfill all the visa requirements and have recently applied for a 187 visa in my wife's name,i have seen the threads and looked on the net but cant seem to find any information about weather we still qualify under the hague convention if we are not citizens,can my wife just decide to go back with the kids with out me agreeing or have i got a say in the matter,also who are the right people to talk to

as I said before many "family law" firms will give brief free advise, dont know what state you are in but as for your inquiry give these people a call http://www.legalaid.nsw.gov.au/what-we-do/family-law if you google you will find one for each state.

Another good source of help is http://www.nsw.relationships.com.au

Also this has info that should answer your question. http://www.ncsmc.org.au/wsas/legal_system/faq.htm#Can I stop the childrens father taking them overseas it applies to both mother and father.

HI

 

We originally came over on a business visa in my name but we did not fulfill all the visa requirements and have recently applied for a 187 visa in my wife's name,i have seen the threads and looked on the net but cant seem to find any information about weather we still qualify under the hague convention if we are not citizens,can my wife just decide to go back with the kids with out me agreeing or have i got a say in the matter,also who are the right people to talk to

You might have bigger issues to deal with - if your wife is the main applicant, but is going home, she would possibly be in breach of the 187 which says she should work for the nominating employer. And that might leave you with no visa either.

Are you still on the temp business visa or are you now on a bridging visa?

HI

 

We originally came over on a business visa in my name but we did not fulfill all the visa requirements and have recently applied for a 187 visa in my wife's name,i have seen the threads and looked on the net but cant seem to find any information about weather we still qualify under the hague convention if we are not citizens,can my wife just decide to go back with the kids with out me agreeing or have i got a say in the matter,also who are the right people to talk to

The Hague Convention applies no matter what visa you have. So yes she needs your permission, but I am puzzled. Do you mean your wife wants to go back for a visit or for good? If the former why wouldn't you let her go back for a visit? Bringing the Hague Convention into a domestic matter of a holiday seems like it could be rather damaging to matrimonial relationships.

If you mean that the marriage is breaking down and she is leaving for good, well then how will you stay anyway if it is her 187 visa application that is underway? Obviously that is not going to go through if she leaves the country.

HI

 

Me and my wife moved out with the children two years ago and left behind two older children from previous relationships to have a better life in oz,now my wife wants to go back with the children to spend time with her new granddaughter,we have not received our PR yet but should receive this in june. me and the children are having a great life in oz and i really want them to stay,could someone please explain if my wife can take the kids back without my consent due to us not being permanent residents or is their nothing i can do

How old are your children that are in Australia? The Hague Convention will apply for you, they are now 'habitually resident' in Australia and your wife can't take them to LIVE in another country without your consent. The HC applies to children under the age of 18, but if they are 16 or over it's unlikely a UK court would issue a return order to send them back to Oz.

However, if your wife wants to take the children to the UK for a HOLIDAY then you should negotiate this with her and a solicitor is not necessary. If she did not return with the children when she said she would then the HC is still on your side for an 'unlawful retention' of the children in the UK and you would get free legal advice and legal representation through the Central Authority in Oz to get them back. Visas and entitlement to live in Oz don't come in to it.

The ludicrous situation of this could be that you successfully get the return of the children to Australia where absolutely none of you then have the right to live there! In this legal scenario the Family Law and the Immigration Law are in total conflict. My son and I were both sent back to Australia under the HC when both of us were on temporary visas. As I could not legally live there the judge had the sense to allow us to come home, and the whole debacle cost in excess of £30,000!

Think long and hard about what you do here. 'Winning' a family court case is not the be all and end all. 11 years on from my case and my son is deeply affected by all that happened and still has two parents in two countries and has tried living between the two countries for years, tried living in Oz last year, returned to the UK at Christmas to live, and despite now wanting to remain in the UK is having emotional issues because he's not seeing his dad. If your relationship with your wife is good then it will be far better for your children to have you all living together in one country. My son has told me many a time that he doesn't care what country he is in, he just wanted a mum and dad in the same one.

I've read this entire thread, but still have a query.

My children and I live in Aus. My husband has just taken a job and moved overseas. We are not officially separated (other than literally by miles).

I'm thinking of taking the children to spend Xmas and January with him. If we did that and things turned sour could he refuse them flying back? Could we get stuck overseas?

Would having a return ticket and a tenancy here be enough to show this is the childrens home? I'm trying to be the bigger person and do the right thing taking my 3 children to follow him, but i'm now worried that it could be foolish.

First of all, where is the country? If it is in the Middle East, then yes it could be an issue, simply because Mothers tend to have no rights over there and you could find the children have to stay there.

If it is the UK, then it should not be a problem as Australia is the habitual residence of the children.

To be honest, what is to stop him flying here for Christmas? You say you are not officially separated, but you are worried enough to post here. Apply caution in whatever you decide to do.

I've read this entire thread, but still have a query.

 

My children and I live in Aus. My husband has just taken a job and moved overseas. We are not officially separated (other than literally by miles).

I'm thinking of taking the children to spend Xmas and January with him. If we did that and things turned sour could he refuse them flying back? Could we get stuck overseas?

 

Would having a return ticket and a tenancy here be enough to show this is the childrens home? I'm trying to be the bigger person and do the right thing taking my 3 children to follow him, but i'm now worried that it could be foolish.

The other question is, is the country he is working in his birth country ? If not then not sure if he would have the right to keep the kids with him, but as Sammy said just be careful. Check out the country he is now in and what their laws are in regards to relocation of parent and children all countries are different. I tend to agree with Sammy let him come back to Aus for Christmas, and dont let the kids anywhere near a middle eastern country

Thanks both. Husband is in the UK.

We are not officially separated in that he has not told me he has left me as such, but he has taken a job on the other side of the world ' for a year or so'. Things are strained to say the least so yes I am worried enough to post on here......I want to try salvage things but need to understand the risks.

He could come here for Christmas but it would just be a few days so I was thinking of taking the children over for the full 6 week summer (or rather UK winter) stint.

Things could go great during our time there but it could also be the end and I want to understand if things turn sour could he insist the children stay in the UK after a 2 month trip?

My eldest is almost adult but my 2 youngest are both only 3 years old.

Thanks both. Husband is in the UK.

 

We are not officially separated in that he has not told me he has left me as such, but he has taken a job on the other side of the world ' for a year or so'. Things are strained to say the least so yes I am worried enough to post on here......I want to try salvage things but need to understand the risks.

 

He could come here for Christmas but it would just be a few days so I was thinking of taking the children over for the full 6 week summer (or rather UK winter) stint.

Things could go great during our time there but it could also be the end and I want to understand if things turn sour could he insist the children stay in the UK after a 2 month trip?

 

My eldest is almost adult but my 2 youngest are both only 3 years old.

Was your husband born in the UK ? There are many free community legal information centers you would get correct and up to date advise from just a case of googling them for your state. Here is one for Qld http://communitylegalqld.org.au/find-legal-help/find-centre/browse-directory and NSW http://www.clcnsw.org.au or contact womens legal service again here is one for Qld https://www.wlsq.org.au but lots on the internet and they are free, only basic advise but that should be enough for what you need right now.

Was your husband born in the UK ? There are many free community legal information centers you would get correct and up to date advise from just a case of googling them for your state. Here is one for Qld http://communitylegalqld.org.au/find-legal-help/find-centre/browse-directory and NSW http://www.clcnsw.org.au or contact womens legal service again here is one for Qld https://www.wlsq.org.au but lots on the internet and they are free, only basic advise but that should be enough for what you need right now.

Thanks that's really helpful, i will contact them.

We were both born in the UK. We moved to Australia for good reasons and here is now home, it's all my

twins know. I'm not keen to uproot them, especially since hubby has not returned for good or because he loves the UK. I don't want to uproot the children (eldest is in important school year) to then find us following him again at short notice in a year or two time to somewhere else.

I am sorry that sounds very difficult. I think a chat with a free community legal service would be a good way to go. I hope it all works out for you. Just one word of advise what ever you do dont go down the road of getting involved with the Aus Family Court system, it will destroy your life and take over your life and the life of your children. Worse case negotiate with your husband come to a resolution you can both live with. Good Luck

My ex pulled a right stunt on me putting us on the kidnap alert, no fly list.

All I would say is the courts were extremely helpful, took 10 working days for the WA courts to put us on the list ex parte ie behind my back and get us off it again. Not nice but they see it all the time and fundamentally believe the kids should be able to go home if that's what the parent wants.

Thanks that's really helpful, i will contact them.

 

We were both born in the UK. We moved to Australia for good reasons and here is now home, it's all my

twins know. I'm not keen to uproot them, especially since hubby has not returned for good or because he loves the UK. I don't want to uproot the children (eldest is in important school year) to then find us following him again at short notice in a year or two time to somewhere else.

You can't leave Austrslia ! If they go back to the uk and he has court proceedings waiting for you - which he probably won't have - in theory the children then can't leave the uk for more than 28 days. I wouldn't risk it personally, he left, he can come back to visit.

I found this out the hard way. Every day is lonely, heart wrenching pain.

Hague Convention on the Rights of the Child has been around since 1980. Hardly new. Japan was one of the last signatories - 2014.

Hague Convention on the Rights of the Child has been around since 1980. Hardly new. Japan was one of the last signatories - 2014.

No, not new, but most families moving to the other side of the world think it will never impact them! Sadly, as too many have found the hard way, it is pretty draconian legislation especially how it is interpreted in some countries, Australia being particularly tough to leave should one parent say no. On balance though it is a safeguard but unfortunately many of the countries to which kids might be moved are not signatories so there is no getting them back.

Agree- although few countries now seem not to be signatories. My daughter, now 40, was married to a Japanese. We knew all about the Hague Convention because it was often in the news in Japan. Presumably it was because Japan was under international pressure to sign up. There was the German wife of a US ambassador somewhere involved in it too - can't recall. Even now that Japan has signed, foreign spouses will very likely be having a tough time re their kids. Japanese courts will nearly always favour the Japanese parent. Anyway, it was one of the reasons daughter bailed out of the marriage before she had kids. She has two now, and is very happy. We hope her ex has remarried, but don't know.

Me and my hubby recently had this conversation. I love my husband lots, been married 5 years, 2 children (2nd due in a week) but you have to be adults and discuss reality.
We are going to speak to a family lawyer about a post nup - money isn't the talking point, it's the decision on the children, we both feel we could never be separated from them and live apart on other sides of the world, so we both have to live in the same place. We decided if I'm unhappy or the kids are we would move back to the UK as that's where we met and where we have both started our lives. Were going to get it in legal writing too. My husband is a very reasonable man, and I am as a wife. But when emotions are running high, you need to have some sensible ground. X

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