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    1. #1

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      Contributory Aged Parent Visa - a couple of questions....

      Hi,

      My sister has been living in Oz now for two years and has just been notified that she will be getting her residency through shortly which is excellent news!.

      My parents are now planning to apply for the Contributory Aged Parent visa via my sisters sponsorship (they are over 65 and in good health etc) and, once they receive that, I am planning to apply for the remaining relative visa through sponsorship from my Sister (I will have no other family outside Oz).

      I have a question regarding the visa payments for the Contributory Aged Parent Visa i.e what gets paid and when?. We have been told conflicting information that the large payment needs to be paid up front but others have said that this is paid at the end and then residency is granted approx 6 weeks after receipt of the final payment - could someone who is going through this please confirm?

      Also does anyone know the average times from start to finish for receiving the CPV/remaining relative visas? It would be good to managed expectations. From what I have read on here, we could reasonably expect both my mum and dad and myself to be all resident within two years?

      Any other thoughts/issues would be welcome - this is my first post so apologies if it has been covered off elsewhere.

      Many thanks!

      Frizzy

    2. #2

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      Quote Originally Posted by frizzy1 View Post
      Hi,

      My sister has been living in Oz now for two years and has just been notified that she will be getting her residency through shortly which is excellent news!.

      My parents are now planning to apply for the Contributory Aged Parent visa via my sisters sponsorship (they are over 65 and in good health etc) and, once they receive that, I am planning to apply for the remaining relative visa through sponsorship from my Sister (I will have no other family outside Oz).

      I have a question regarding the visa payments for the Contributory Aged Parent Visa i.e what gets paid and when?. We have been told conflicting information that the large payment needs to be paid up front but others have said that this is paid at the end and then residency is granted approx 6 weeks after receipt of the final payment - could someone who is going through this please confirm?

      Also does anyone know the average times from start to finish for receiving the CPV/remaining relative visas? It would be good to managed expectations. From what I have read on here, we could reasonably expect both my mum and dad and myself to be all resident within two years?

      Any other thoughts/issues would be welcome - this is my first post so apologies if it has been covered off elsewhere.

      Many thanks!

      Frizzy
      Hi Frizzy

      Welcome to Poms in Oz.

      Do not be tempted to jump the gun with your Parents' visa application. Your sister must get her PR visa through before your Parents apply. I've seen the POPC refuse a CP visa because a Registered Migration Agent jumped the gun about this in 2006/7, which made me chary. If you include a certified copy of your sister's passport page showing her PR visa label on it, this bit cannot go wrong on you all.

      You say your Parents intend to apply for the Contributory Aged Parent visa? That is an onshore visa so your Parents cannot make a valid application for it unless their feet are on Australian soil at the time when the application is made. Therefore where are your Parents at the moment and which visa do they currently hold, please?

      If they are in Oz on subclass 976 90-day ETA (short stay tourist) visas then there is no problem with launching a CAPV application provided that the CAPV application is lodged before the expiry of the 90-day permitted stay in Australia.

      If they are in Oz on a subclass 676 long stay tourist visa, however, permitting a stay of more than 90 unbroken days in Australia, then you need to check their visa conditions very carefully. Specifically, you need to check whether the tourist visas are subject to Condition 8503 - no further stay. If they are subject to Condition 8503 then a CAPV application could not be a valid application: the whole thing would just be chucked back at you, including the fee.

      If they are subject to Condition 8503 then your Parents will need to leave Australia before they can do anything else. Once they are outside Australia you would need to apply for the offshore Contributory Parent subclass 143 or 173 visa for them. They would need to be outside Australia on the date when the application is despatched to the POPC and outside Australia on the date when the POPC receive it, for the sake of procedural safety.

      Are you sure that you do not have a problem with Condition 8503?

      Whether your Parents apply for the offshore CPV or for the onshore CAPV, the payment drills are the same. They need to tender $2,105 AUD with the visa application form, the sponsorship form etc. This one payment covers both Parents and pays DIAC's costs for processing the application.

      The big money - the 2nd Instalment - is the final step in the sequence prior to the grant of the visa. It will not be requested until right at the end of the process and it will not be accepted except when paid in response to a formal, written request for the payment. Once it has been requested and paid, the CO will then grant the visas. The period between making the final payment and the grant of the visas varies enormously: it could be anything between 6 hours and 6 weeks depending on what the CO has enough time to do and when.

      If your Parents make the application in plenty of time before Friday 24th October 2008, they will beat the increase in the 2nd Instalment which is scheduled for implementation on Monday 27th October 2008. Avoid taking it to the wire if you can: try to ensure that the visa application reaches DIAC by no later than Friday 17th October, I would suggest.

      Go Matilda - Your Gateway to Australia - News

      As for the time-scale, the news is not good I am afraid:

      Go Matilda - Your Gateway to Australia - News

      There are 600 onshore CAPVs available each year. I would expect the processing to be a bit quicker than for the offshore visas, perhaps, but I would still budget on somewhere around 20 months minimum from the date when the application is formally lodged with DIAC.

      You are aware that your Parents must get their CPVs or CAPVs and the visas must have been fully validated before you would be able to make a valid application for a Remaining Relly visa. I have heard that the processing time for Remaining Relly visas is currently around 18 months if the application is made via DIAC in London. I would say that if you assume a time-scale of 4-5 years from now before you will obtain PR as a Remaining Relly you will probably not be far out. Not less than 4 years, anyway.

      Please shout if I can help any further at this stage.

      Best wishes

      Gill

    3. #3

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      Angry

      Hi, thanks for that.

      We will definately be waiting until my Sister has her residency before doing anything- she should have this in October.

      My parents are currently still in the UK and were planning to go out on a short term visa to lodge the application once might sister has the residency signed and sealed. Can they then return to the UK once the application is lodge or do they have to stay there (alright for some!). I understand that they can get bridging visas to allow them to stay if they wish?

      Its good to have it confirmed that the final instalment is not paid until nearer the end as this will give them a bit more time to get the money together and thanks for advising about the increase in 2nd Vac - do you know what this will be following the increase as I am not sure that they will be able to apply before 24th October as my Sister may not have her residency through then.

      Can I just re-clarify the number of onshore CPV visas - is it 600 or 6000?

      Its a bit disappointing re the timescales - whilst I did know I had to wait until my parents are granted PR, I was hoping the timescales would be sooner. It does seem nuts to have people who are willing to pay and just want to keep the family together to have to wait so long - seems like I might have a lonely few years

      Thanks again for the info - we will no doubt start progressing things for my parents as soon as my sister gets her residency through.

      Frizzy

    4. #4

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      Quote Originally Posted by frizzy1 View Post
      Hi, thanks for that.

      We will definately be waiting until my Sister has her residency before doing anything- she should have this in October.

      My parents are currently still in the UK and were planning to go out on a short term visa to lodge the application once might sister has the residency signed and sealed. Can they then return to the UK once the application is lodge or do they have to stay there (alright for some!). I understand that they can get bridging visas to allow them to stay if they wish?

      Its good to have it confirmed that the final instalment is not paid until nearer the end as this will give them a bit more time to get the money together and thanks for advising about the increase in 2nd Vac - do you know what this will be following the increase as I am not sure that they will be able to apply before 24th October as my Sister may not have her residency through then.

      Can I just re-clarify the number of onshore CPV visas - is it 600 or 6000?

      Its a bit disappointing re the timescales - whilst I did know I had to wait until my parents are granted PR, I was hoping the timescales would be sooner. It does seem nuts to have people who are willing to pay and just want to keep the family together to have to wait so long - seems like I might have a lonely few years

      Thanks again for the info - we will no doubt start progressing things for my parents as soon as my sister gets her residency through.

      Frizzy
      Hi again, Frizzy

      I confirm that the total quota of visas in the Contributory Parent Scheme is now 6,500 visas a year. 5,900 of these are reserved for applicants for the offshore CP 143 and 173 visas. The remaining 600 are reserved for applicants for the onshore CAP 864 and 884 visas.

      The 2nd Instalment is currently $31,555 per Parent. On 27th October it will rise to $32,725 per Parent as described in Alan Collett's recent news article:

      Go Matilda - Your Gateway to Australia - News

      To be honest with you, I think your Parents are making life unnecessarily complicated for themselves with their current proposals. A much easier, safer strategy would be as follows:

      Wait for your sister to get PR. Once she has that, Parents apply for an offshore CP 143 or 173 visa. Since they are currently resident offshore (ie outside Australia) the offshore visa is the one they should be seeking in any event.

      Once the CPV application is in the system, a special concession in the rules for the subclass 676 long stay tourist visa will kick in. Under this, if your Parents want to spend the processing time for their CPVs waiting in Australia, DIAC will give them a stay of 12 unbroken months at a stretch in Australia if requested:

      Tourist Visa (Subclass 676)

      DIAC's recent practice has been not to impose Condition 8503 on the long-stay tourist visa when a CPV applicant wants the tourist visa. When the 12 months is up, it will be possible for the Parents to make an onshore application for a further 12 month stay.

      They will need to leave Australia in order for the CPV 143 or 173 visas to be granted. However, a week in any of Fiji, Auckland, Singapore or Bali will do for this purpose. Whichever is nearest and cheapest, basically. Your Parents can then return to Oz as soon as their CPVs have been granted and that will be that.

      The method I describe is the one we used with my own mother in 2005 & 2006 whilst her CPV 143 application was being processed and it worked like a charm. I know loads of other Parents who are doing the same.

      The risks with your Parents' current proposal are as follows:

      They would have to distort the truth in order to obtain the 90-day ETAs. The Migration Regulations state:

      976.22 Criteria to be satisfied at time of decision


      976.221 The applicant holds a passport that is an ETA‑eligible passport in relation to this Subclass.


      976.222 The applicant states an intention only to visit Australia temporarily for tourism purposes.


      Somebody who intends to enter Australia for the purpose of making an onshore application for permission to remain in Australia indefinitely cannot possibly comply with S976.222.


      The person would have to fib about his or her intentions, first in the application for the sub-class 976 90-day ETA visa, then in the passenger card on the plane (which asks about the purpose of the visit and the proposed duration of stay) and again at Immigration Control on arrival in Australia if the DIAC Officer asks any questions - which s/he is perfectly entitled to do.

      The next problem that would arise with the CAPV route is that your Parents would need to seek permission to remain in Australia on a Bridging Visa, because a CAPV cannot be granted unless the applicant for it is in Australia at the time of the application and in Australia when the visa is ready for grant. If the visa applicant is outside Australia at the relevant time, DIAC would have every right to refuse the application.

      Your Parents would be given a Bridging Visa A. This visa would enable them to remain in Australia until the outcome of the CAPV application is known, but a Bridging Visa A does not give a right of re-entry to Oz. DIAC would not prevent the holder of a BV A from leaving Australia, but it would not let them back in to Australia on it.

      Therefore if your Parents wanted to leave Australia at any time during the processing period for the CAPV, they would have to apply for a Bridging Visa B ("the travel visa") before leaving Oz:


      The information form states that a BV B will only be forthcoming if the applicant can show a "substantial reason" for leaving Oz for a spell before returning to Oz. In practice DIAC interpret that generously, but your Parents would be restricted to spending no more than a maximum of 90 days a year outside of Australia on a BV B. Go over the 90 days and the right to return to Oz would be lost. It is not even possible to apply for a Bridging Visa from anywhere outside Australia.

      Therefore if DIAC wanted to shaft your Parents, there is a simple legal trap that they could bait, set and spring:

      Wait for your Parents to leave Oz for some reason. As soon as they leave, invoke the Early Decision procedure for their CAPV application. Alas & alack - the CAPV applicants are not in Australia when DIAC would otherwise have been ready to grant the CAPV. The CAPV application must therefore be refused.

      I do not think for a second that DIAC would be so spiteful and unreasonable: but they do have all the legal machinery that they could need if they choose to have a crackdown on the practice of people taking Australia's visa-generosity for granted in the way that so many foreign nationals do. The visa system is based upon trust: upon the notion that people will tell DIAC the truth about their intentions when seeking a visa for Oz. There is a perfectly good visa alternative that would reflect what your parents would like, it seems to me, so I suspect that they would simply be making a rod for their own backs, unnecessarily.

      The offshore route simply avoids the need to do anything that has the effect of trapping the Parent in Oz, I suggest. Plus it avoids the need to go traipsing around seeking Bridging Visas and explaining themselves to DIAC. They can apply for long-stay tourist visas on line. All they have to do is to point to the CPV application and 12 months in Oz is a certainty for them if they want it.

      If they are unsure about staying in Oz for the duration of the processing period for a CAPV (during which time they would need special permission to work in Oz if they want to work in Oz - which permission might or might not be given) then I would say that the current plan is too complicated to be worthwhile? I can't see what advantage it would really achieve?

      Best wishes

      Gill
      Last edited by Gollywobbler; 19-09-2008 at 09:34 AM.

    5. #5

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      Gill,

      Thanks for all this - this is excellent.

      As my parents are "aged" we thought they could only apply for the "aged" parent visa which is only availble onshore - is not the case i.e can they apply for the normal contributory parent visa despite their age?

      If so, that is good news -as you have said it makes things a lot easier AND there are more places allocated to offshore applicants.

      Thanks again.

      Frizzy

    6. #6

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      Hi Frizzy

      You are not alone, I can tell you! My mother was 85 when her CPV 143 (offshore) visa was granted exactly two years ago. The year before in 2005 she had returned to the UK from visiting my sister in Perth and I felt that the travel was becoming too much for Mum.

      We had had endless hassle with the Balance of Family test for years because although Mum only has two children of her own - myself in the UK and Elaine out in Oz - Mum also has a UK-based stepdaughter who is my late father's daughter by his first wife. Even after Dad's death in 1991 DIAC treated all 3 of us as Mum's "children" even though there is no biological link between Mum and Ann and no legal link between them either following Dad's death. It was completely illogical: the relationship between step-parent and step-child is derivative. It cannot come into being without the contract of marriage and Dad's death had severed the contract of marriage. Therefore his death must have severed the step-relationship at the same time but DIAC insisted that this was not the case according to Australian Law.

      In 2005 I decided to give it one final try just in case - by some quirk of chance - legal logic had finally succeeded in penetrating in Canberra. To my astonishment it had, following a Migration Review Tribunal hearing on a virtually identical set of facts 18 months earlier.

      So - the Balance of Family finally resolved in Mum's favour, the next question was which one out of a confusing jumble of visas was meant to be the right one to choose?

      Like you, I was completely foxed by the word "Aged." Mum is undoubtedly aged. So did it mean that she was supposed to travel to Oz in order to apply for the Aged version of the visa? If so, which visa was she meant to use in order to travel to Oz for the purpose?

      The old DIAC website said coyly, "You may be entitled to a Bridging Visa...." Right. So was Mum meant to get one of these Bridging Visas in order to travel to Oz, then? What is a Bridging Visa anyway? Four hours later I was an expert on Bridging Visas and it was obvious that the website had led me up the garden path with that notion.

      Eventually the penny dropped that "Aged" means "Onshore" in this context. You could never discover that from consulting a dictionary, however.

      Why on earth they couldn't simply have called it the Contributory Parent (Onshore) and the Contributory Parent (Offshore) is anyone's guess, frankly!

      I am not surprised that the terminology foxed you as much as it did me.

      Best wishes

      Gill
      Last edited by Gollywobbler; 19-09-2008 at 10:05 AM.

    7. #7

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      Gill,

      Thanks for that - thats brilliant news and glad I am not the only one getting confused here lol!

      O.k your suggestion sounds much better so I will discuss this with my sister - it also hopefully means they now have more of chance of getting in a bit sooner with the allocation being higher.

      For many many years we had wanted to move to Oz and its only now that it looks like it might become a reality with my sister making the first move. Its just so frustrating though, knowing you can now get in but it might take 4 years in total!

      Unfortunately they didnt tell me in school that being a hairdresser, nurse etc would get me in so I took a job as an Account Development Manager in Insurance - from the skills list I dont seem to fit in anywhere so cant get in this way although I guess I could also try the employer sponsorship if I want to try and move sooner. Not being there its very difficult to know just how easy/hard it is to get employer sponsorship for this type of job but my plan is to visit Oz next year and do a rekky by meeting some agencies etc.

      Thanks again for all your help - no doubt there will be more questions as we proceed!

      Frizz

    8. #8

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      Gill,

      Sorry, just a couple more questions!

      In the literature we have it says that for a Contributory Parent Visa (offshore) that the first vac doesnt need to be paid however on the immigration website it says regardless of which visa (offshore or onshore) the 1st vac does need to be paid - do you know which is correct? We are assuming it does have to be paid.

      Also, do you know whether my sister has to prove her eligilibity to be a sponsor before my mum and dad apply or does this happen at the same time as my Mum and Dads application goes through?

      Finally, once the request for the 2nd vac comes through, what is the time limit for paying this i.e is it within 28 days etc

      Thanks again.

      Frizz

    9. #9

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      Quote Originally Posted by frizzy1 View Post
      Gill,

      Sorry, just a couple more questions!

      In the literature we have it says that for a Contributory Parent Visa (offshore) that the first vac doesnt need to be paid however on the immigration website it says regardless of which visa (offshore or onshore) the 1st vac does need to be paid - do you know which is correct? We are assuming it does have to be paid.

      Also, do you know whether my sister has to prove her eligilibity to be a sponsor before my mum and dad apply or does this happen at the same time as my Mum and Dads application goes through?

      Thanks again.

      Frizz
      Hi Frizz

      There is machinery whereby if you have applied for a non-contributory Parent 103 or Aged Parent 804 visa and you change your mind and switch into the CPV or CAPV scheme, you can switch without paying the 1st Instalment again. However without a prior Parent application, the 1st Instalment must accompany the CPV or CAPV application.

      No - they check your sister's eligibility to Sponsor at the same time as checking whether the Balance of Family test is met etc. Your sister simply needs to complete Form 40 and send the relevant supporting documents to go with it. My sister is an Australian Citizen, so we produced her passport, her marriage certificate and her Citizenship certificate to go with Form 40. Elaine's birth certificate was elsewhere in the bundle of documents, to prove that she was the relevant Child in relation to Mum.

      You are meant to prove where you live according to the Checklist for the visa. So was I. At the last minute, I realised that I had forgotten to copy my passport and anyway that does not prove where I live. However, the legislation contains a "default provision." If the whereabouts of the other children are not proven, the legislation assumes that they are in the Parent's country of origin.

      Therefore I figured that there was no need to prove where I live. The legislation would default to the right result without any need for intervention from me! That decided, I posted the bundle and no questions were ever asked about me. We produced my birth certificate but absolutely nothing else about me.

      They ask for the 2nd Instalment to be paid within 28 days of the request but in practice if you need more time and you explain why to your Parents' CO they are very accommodating about it. They impose deadlines solely so they they can prevent visa applicants from mucking them around with promises about something that might vaguely happen manana. As long as the CO knows that there is a house in the UK that needs to be sold or whatever, is aware of what is happening about that etc, the COs are content to wait for the money.

      Best wishes

      Gill
      Last edited by Gollywobbler; 19-09-2008 at 02:22 PM.

    10. #10
      etomova

      Parent Contributory visa

      Hello Gill,

      It looks like you are very experienced in parent contribution visas and I would like to ask you few things:

      My parents have applied for PCV beginning of December 2007 and got their acknowledgment letter on 17th of December. As far as I understood from an article in go matilda -http://www.gomatilda.com/news/article.cfm?articleid=465 my parents are not likely to get their visa by the end of the year.

      As they are desperate to come by Christmas I am looking for other options as applying for a tourist visa as you mentioned.

      However is this legal and allowed by the Department?
      How do we point to CPA application when applying for tourist visa?
      If my parents are given a tourist visa, would that slow down the CPA process?
      Are there any hidden risks?
      Thank you!

      Elly

     

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