Contributory Aged Parent (Residence) Visa (Subclass 864)

I have 2 aged parents... and being an only child i am now thinking of how to get them over here for their last years...

dad was born in 1916 and mum 1920....

if they came over on a holiday visa could we apply for this whilst they are here?... would this aged parent visa be the way to go or can anyone else give any other ideas or visas we can try?

thanks

min x:wubclub:

Talk to Gill - Gollywobbler - shes your girl!

Talk to Gill - Gollywobbler - shes your girl!

Cheers jo.. i had emailed Gill a while ago looking at the normal parent visa...and she gave me a few ideas... however i didn't take age into consideration so i thought i'd better look at other options....

i did think of the retirement one but i don't think they fit the catagory for that.........

we just need to get them over and do it all 'now' as time is slowly ticking... if you get my drift!!

min x:wubclub:

WOW, Just wanted to say..wow, 2 parents at such a ripe old age...blimey, whats the secret to living to such a fantastic old age AND being fit enough to move halfway around the world!! My Nan's only 75 and can't even get a Dr to let her come here on holiday!! (diabetes, vertigo, blood pressure etc!)

Best of luck, sorry no useful advice, just shocked and stunned sat here!!

Can they just be 'naughty' and come on a holiday visa but over stay? Whats the chances of them going back? Or is it not that simple (v. naughty I know...but if they are desperate to come!!)

WOW, Just wanted to say..wow, 2 parents at such a ripe old age...blimey, whats the secret to living to such a fantastic old age AND being fit enough to move halfway around the world!! My Nan's only 75 and can't even get a Dr to let her come here on holiday!! (diabetes, vertigo, blood pressure etc!)

Best of luck, sorry no useful advice, just shocked and stunned sat here!!

Can they just be 'naughty' and come on a holiday visa but over stay? Whats the chances of them going back? Or is it not that simple (v. naughty I know...but if they are desperate to come!!)

They keep active... mum was and still is a dancing teacher and professional adjudicator...

im bumping this up again as i haven't had an answer yet... sorry!

min x:wubclub:

Gill or Alan... i would really apprieciate some advice on which way to go... thanks

min x:wubclub:

Gill or Alan... i would really apprieciate some advice on which way to go... thanks

min x:wubclub:

Im sure that Gill or Alan would not mind a PM!

Im sure that Gill or Alan would not mind a PM!

I know.. but i also think there may be other folks who might like to know the answer too..... also i don't want to be bothersom..(can't spell bothersom/son!!! lol)

min x:wubclub:

Hello Minlady

I'm really sorry for the delay in responding to you. Unfortunately, you need to absorb a lot of information about this, so I had to wait for enough time to give you a thoughtful, coherent response instead of trying to give you a quick answer and confusing you totally with it. I plan to break this reply down into different sections, which will hopefully help to clarify things as well.

Settled Sponsor

Honey, your Parents can't sensibly apply for any of the visas in the Parent group until your own lifestyle in Oz has become "settled." The reason is because you will have to Sponsor M&D's application. The Sponsor undertakes that if the Parents should fall on hard times during their first two years in Oz, the Sponsor will provide them with an adequate home, food, clothing and enough money for their day to day living expenses, so that the Parents will not need to claim (or become eligible for) Special Benefit instead during their first two years out in Oz. The Sponsor cannot realistically give this undertaking unless the Sponsor's own lifestyle is settled.

It is a time-of-application requirement that the Sponsor must be a settled permanent resident of Australia. If you jump the gun on your Parents' behalf, the risk is that DIAC will refuse the visa on the ground that you had not become sufficiently settled in Oz by the time the application was made. Now - you might appeal against such a refusal and you might win in the Migration Review Tribunal if you do, but it is safer to avoid the risk of a visa refusal, I would suggest. Nobody needs the emotional stress that an Appeal would inevitably cause.

Alan Collett of Go Matilda has recently produced a very good article about this issue, which is here:

http://www.gomatilda.com/news/article.cfm?articleid=441

Read the two cases that Alan has cited very carefully indeed, and in particular study the Badcock case, which is the more recent one and also it is closer to your own circumstances than the Sampson case, in as much as you did not make a rekky visit between the grant of your visa and your move out to Oz.

However, the fact remains that you did not activate your PR visa till about 2 months ago. If you read what DIAC have to say about demonstrating that the Sponsor is settled, the people in charge of the Policy which underpins the legislation would prefer it if prospective Sponsors live in Oz for around two years before trying to Sponsor other members of their families for migration to Australia as well. Please see Page 16 of Booklet 3, which is here:

http://www.immi.gov.au/allforms/booklets/books3.htm

The Policy textbooks acknowledge that the facts may support either a lesser or a greater waiting period than the general two-year “rule of thumb” and the cases prove that the Tribunal is willing to consider exceptions to the general rule.

That said, though, there are sensible arguments to support DIAC’s own views about this. The evidence is that a percentage of migrants to Oz get there and find that Oz is not for them after all. A high number of them leave Oz rather than trying to stick it out. The factual evidence is that the majority of migrants who decide not to stay leave Australia within two years of arrival.

Just to give you some examples of people whom you “know” via Poms in Oz, Muppetbro went to Adelaide full of hope in 2007, but he has recently left Oz after only about 7 or 8 months there. I think John (Essex to Aus) was there for about 9 months but he has also recently come home. Aldo has certainly not been there for 2 years but he has now put his house on the market and seems to plan to leave Oz fairly quickly once his house has been sold. There are several others as well if you look through Poms in Oz threads and also read the “Going Home” section or whatever it is called on British Expats. The Policy makers are definitely right about the idea that the migrants who decide not to stay in Oz have generally left Oz before two years have elapsed since they migrated.

Obviously it is sensible to discourage people from trying to get their families to join them until it has become clear whether or not the first member of the family will actually stay in Australia long term him or herself. It would be particularly wrong to uproot elderly Parents in haste, and for them to hot foot it to Oz on a very expensive visa only to get there and find that their child is as miserable as sin and wants the whole family to return to the UK. The Oz Govt won’t prevent the Parents from leaving, but the current cost of a CP visa for a couple is $64,500 to DIAC and a further $14,000 Bond in connection with the Assurance of Support. Trying to get the Bond released before the 10 years that it is normally held for has expired would not be easy and the Government will not return any part of the $64,500 no matter what anybody tries to beg of them.

Therefore the whole family does need a chance to give the child time in which to find his/her feet in Oz and to make sure that the child’s early enchantment with Oz is not just a “honeymoon period” which might wither and be replaced by much less enthusiasm for the place given more time.

This question is actually further complicated by today’s as-yet-unclear announcement from the Minister about the quota of Parent visa places for the 2008/9 Program year. The current number of Parent visas available each year is 4,500 in total. Of these, 1,000 are reserved for non-contributory Parents and 3,500 are available for Contributory Parents.

The Minister – with a singular lack of clarity – has announced today that as of 1st July 2008, for the 2008/9 Program Year, there will be a total of 8,500 “Parent Visas” – an increase of 4,000 on top of the existing quota. However, whoever wrote the Press release has not seen fit to tell us what the breakdown is between the non-contributory and Contributory Parent visa places. You could try ringing Simon Dowding, the contact named in the Press release, but my guess is that he will not be able to give you the breakdown. I suspect that he is a Press Officer who has simply turned a set of notes into something media friendly and that he does not have any details himself.

I think the best bet is to leave it to Alan Collett to ask the POPC tomorrow. They will know the breakdown and Alan has promised that he will confirm it as soon as he knows it for sure. There is no point in everyone phoning the POPC. One phone call or e-mail between Alan & the POPC will be enough for us all. Alan has been actively campaigning for 4,000 additional Contributory Parent visas a year, and he has done a huge amount, un-sung, unpaid and behind the scenes, to try to get the Australian Government to go along with his views about this. We will see what tomorrow produces.

If the whole of the extra 4,000 visas has been allocated to the Contributory Parent scheme then we should see the processing times for CPVs come back down to around 9-12 months. This would be in line with the Ministerial Target for processing times, as recorded in the 2006-7 DIAC Annual Report. If so, then it will have a knock-on effect on which visa you choose for your Parents and what they do before it will be safe for them to apply for CP or CAP visas sponsored by you.

So for the moment we have to leave this part of the question on “hold” really until we have confirmation of the breakdown and can therefore calculate the likely processing times for CPVs and CAPVs. Meanwhile, please see this thread because Alan may update it before I am up tomorrow morning:

http://www.pomsinoz.com/forum/migration-issues/35280-increase-number-parent-visas-2008-09-a.html

I will post a further reply to you on this point once we can work out the processing times reasonably accurately, but my feeling is that we cannot do that just yet. I’d rather wait for Alan to confirm whether the increase has been split or just what is going to happen.

In the meantime, I think it would be very risky for you to try to launch any application for Parent migration for your Parents just yet anyway, because of the “settled” issue.

Min, please study the two case-reports carefully, please. How close do you reckon you are to being able to satisfy the question of whether or not you have become “settled” in Oz? Your answer on this point is absolutely crucial to helping you to work out how best to play the visa-ball on your Parents’ behalf.

This is another crucial piece of the jig-saw. The permanent CPV 143 or CAPV 864 cannot be granted until an acceptable Assurance of Support has been put into place first. Up to three individuals can club together to provide an AoS, but an individual can only Assure a maximum of 2 adults at any one time, plus the Assurer is means-tested by Centrelink.

Since you are a wife & mum, the usual scenario would be that you and your OH together would provide a joint AoS for your Parents, because you are their child but he is probably the main breadwinner in your own household.

You have to be very careful about the fact that if Hubby gets involved with Assuring your Parents then he would be unable to Assure his own Parents for any sort of Parent visa until the 10 year AoS period for your Parents’ visa has come to an end.

This being so, are there any plans for Hubby’s Parents to migrate? Even if they cannot migrate now, what would happen if one of Hubby’s siblings should die prematurely? Would that alter what his Parents might want to do?

Also, you are talking about the CAP 864 visa, which is the immediately-permanent version of the onshore CAP visa. Fine, but an AoS would be needed for that and Centrelink will require proof of the Assurers’ incomes for two consecutive years, and the income for the first of the relevant years must be proven by production of a Tax Assessment Notice for each person involved in giving the AoS. Please see the following links:

http://www.gomatilda.com/news/article.cfm?articleid=436

http://www.immi.gov.au/media/fact-sheets/34aos.htm

http://www.centrelink.gov.au/internet/internet.nsf/factors/assurance_support.htm

Again, this is affected by what effect the new quota will have on processing times, and that in turn will affect whether or not you opt for the temporary CPV or CAPV to start with. If you propose to try an early application plus the processing time is likely to be quick, you may be forced to choose the temporary CP 173 visa or the temporary Contributory Aged Parent 884 visa to start with.

So again I would say let us leave this in abeyance for a day or two whilst we clarify the other questions. However, please DO make sure that you and OH are earning enough between you so that there will be no possible headaches with the AoS income thresholds when the time comes. They do increase the thresholds without notice, and the new, higher thresholds then apply with immediate effect, so “just about enough” today is NOT enough to be safe at some time in the future. That said, the thresholds were reduced when the scheme was re-jigged at the beginning of January 2008, hopefully making things easier for families on comparatively low incomes.

If your Parents opt for the Offshore CP 143 or 173 visa, one advantage would be that they need not leave the UK before they apply. You have been in Oz for a little over 2 months so far. In another 4-6 months time it might be possible to say that your lifestyle has become fully settled, and that therefore it is safe to make an application for CP or CAP visas for your Parents.

Once an application for an offshore Parent visa is in the pipeline (doesn’t matter which one) there is a special concession in the rules for the subclass 676 tourist visa. The guideline provided to DIAC COs is that in this scenario, the Parent visa applicant should be given an unbroken stay of up to 12 months in Oz if s/he requests it.

If that is not long enough to ensure that the CPV can be granted within the 12 months, no probs. Even if the visas are still taking about 18 months as at present, the meds can be frontloaded if need be and they can be done in Australia. (I’ve heard that it is cheaper to get them done in Oz than in the UK.) As long as DIAC are satisfied that the CPV will be granted once the POPC can deal with it, they are very accommodating about permitting a second stay of 12 months in Oz on a new tourist visa if requested.

They were very willing to do this for my Mum in 2006, when she was almost 86, though in the end we did not need a second tourist visa for her. They did it recently for SAVTA, and her thread is here:

http://www.pomsinoz.com/forum/migration-issues/25677-we-were-tram-melbourne.html

Savta lives in Melbourne so it was convenient for her to go to Auckland for a few days. However, the same facilities are available in both Bali & Singapore so in your Parent’s shoes I’d treat myself to 5 days (4 nights) at Raffles Hotel in Singapore (I LURVE Raffles!) go to the Australian High Commission in Singapore armed with a paper application for a new 12 month tourist visa, explain the situation to the staff there and they will almost certainly grant the new tourist visas on the spot, as they did with Savta and her husband.

I don’t actually recommend Bali for people as old as your Parents and my Mum. It is a dirty place, whereas Singapore is spotless. Also, my Mum went to Bali when she was about 82. She picked up a very nasty eye infection whilst she was there. She ended up with an emergency admission to hospital in Perth and was in hospital for about a week. For the first 3 or 4 days the doctors were muttering that they might have to remove her left eye in order to stop the infection from spreading into her brain and potentially killing her. Luckily they zapped her with huge doses of antibiotics and got rid of the infection, plus they put a stitch in the corner of her eye which they said would stop the infection from recurring. (Dunno how, but it has not recurred.) Nonetheless, she has lost most of the sight in that eye, so I would never let her go anywhere near Bali ever again. I don’t think one wants to take chances like this with such elderly folks and Mum would not have gone to Bali in the first place if we had realised that infections of this sort are about there and/or how serious they can be. Plus there are world-class hospitals in Singapore if need be, but I would not want to rely on a hospital in Bali for Mum. With your Parents, I’d defo say Singapore instead, both if their tourist visa might need to be replaced and also so that their CPVs could be granted.

Whether or not your Parents might actually be likely to need 2 tourist visas depends on the quota again. That should be clearer in the next day or two, I hope. But DIAC are definitely NOT in the business of forcing the every elderly to traipse back & forth between Oz and the UK unless they want to. (Mutter ‘English winter’ to anyone from DIAC and they always start shivering and crossing themselves I have noticed, which always makes me chuckle!)

The other immense strength of the offshore CPV route for elderly British Parents is Medicare. As British tourists in Oz, they would be protected by the Reciprocal Health Care Agreement between the UK and Oz regardless of their age. Please see here:

http://www.medicareaustralia.gov.au/public/migrants/visitors/index.shtml

The down side of the offshore CPV route for the elderly is that the health of one of them could fail unexpectedly during the processing period for the CPV. If they happens, the Parent concerned might fail the meds for migration. In that event, the visa would be refused and the ‘one fails, all fail’ rule would apply. It might be possible to appeal against a visa refusal on medical grounds, get the Review Medical Officer of the Commonwealth involved, adduce new or additional medical information if desired, and get the relevant Parent’s meds re-assessed from scratch by the RMOC. The RMOC has overruled the original MOC in a surprisingly high number of Appeals that the Migration Review Tribunal reports publicly, but only about 10% of MRT cases are reported publicly. Therefore I don’t know how often the MOC and the RMOC really disagree about a given visa applicant’s meds. But whatever the eventual outcome, the chances are that your Parents would have to return to the UK and stay here until the outcome of any Appeal would be known, which would usually be around 18 months later.

Because of the Appeals Question, onshore Agents nearly always recommend that when Parents are as old as yours one should try to get them into Australia first so as to be able to make an onshore application for an Aged Parent or Contributory Aged Parent visa instead.

The way this idea works is that when the tourist visas which have gotten the Parents into Oz in the first place expire, the Parents switch to Bridging Visa. These enable them to stay in Oz until the outcome of the AP/CAP application is eventually known. If there is a visa refusal on medical or any other grounds, the family can appeal to the Migration Review Tribunal. If the MRT upholds the refusal then depending on the reason for the refusal it may be possible to appeal to the Court next. Whether or not the Court gets involved, if the MRT refuses the visa then the family can make a direct appeal to the Minister for Immigration.

The Minister alone has the power to waive all or any of the criteria for a given visa if he – in his sole discretion – considers it to be in the public interest to do so. Australia is not keen on acquiring an international reputation as a bunch of inhumane bastards who would deport honest people in their 80s and 90s, so although the outcomes of Ministerial Appeals are not reported, it seems pretty unlikely that a frail and ancient Parent would be thrown out of Oz in the end. The Parent remains in Oz, on the Bridging Visa, until the outcome of the appeal to the Minister is eventually known, so effectively it is likely that a Parent who is too ill to pass the meds will probably end up remaining on a Bridging Visa for the rest of his or her life.

Which – if one is considering the legal issues alone – is an argument that I find compelling. Plainly the best place for an ancient Parent is with his or her only child in Australia if the child is not willing to consider leaving Australia in order to care for his/her Parents elsewhere.

However, I don’t like the Medicare angle with Bridging Visas and British Parent visa applicants. Please see Form 1024i below:

http://www.immi.gov.au/allforms/pdf/1024i.pdf

According to that form, Medicare is not available to an applicant for a Parent visa who is in Oz on a Bridging Visa (and we can bet that this applies to applicants for Contributory Aged Parent visas as well.) In this scenario, it is not clear whether the RHCA between the UK and Oz will reverse Form 1024i or whether it won’t. The day the Parent is being admitted to Intensive Care is not the time to try to find out, either, so I think that for safety’s sake one would need to buy absolutely top-of-the-range medical private medical insurance for the Parents concerned, irrespective of the cost of the Policy, which would be high. $600 a month minimum for such an elderly couple would not surprise me at all. I also wouldn’t want to see this situation dragging on for too long, which brings us back to the quota / processing times / length of time for Appeals.

I actually think – myself – that the offshore visa coupled with one or two long stay tourist visas is much simpler, safer and vastly more elegant than getting involved with the uncertainties of Bridging Visas in a situation where the Parent might sail through the visa meds anyway. If there is no reason to doubt that the Parent will pass the meds, and the processing of the offshore CPV is likely to be reasonably speedy, then I can’t see the point of taking a risk with adequate medical cover for the sake of an appeals process which may not have to be used in the end anyway.

The onshore visa is used every time if there is genuine reason to suppose that the Parent will not pass the meds. In that situation there is really no viable alternative, and when the Parent is from a country that does not have a reciprocal health care agreement with Oz, any Parent of 70 or over would need private medical insurance in order to be able to get a 12 month stay on a tourist visa anyway, so I think the situation is actually less complicated for families which are not British and therefore do not make comparisons with the Welfare State in the UK.

British Parents are shocked by having to pay $31.30 per drug every time they need a routine repeat prescription for medicines for their various ailments because they can get the scripts filled for free in the UK. But if Medicare is not available then the Pharmaceutical Benefits Scheme is not available either, which could result in a bill of over $100 just for one repeat script for one particular drug.

If one is considering an onshore CAPV application for Parents who are currently outside Oz, one has to consider how to get them into Oz in the first place, and this is where I think you could come upon an obstacle that might well prevent any thoughts of an onshore visa for your Parents anyway.

If your Parents apply for a standard subclass 676 tourist visa that would permit them to spend 6 months or more in Australia (they could request a stay of up to 12 unbroken months) the drill is as follows:

First they would need to get their own GP to complete the tourist visa medical certificate for each of them, which is here:

http://www.uk.embassy.gov.au/lhlh/health.html

NHS GPs tend to charge between £30 & £60 per person for completing this forim.

Then they would need to apply for the subclass 676 tourist visa, which is here:

http://www.immi.gov.au/visitors/tourist/676/index.htm

The burble says that they would need medical insurance, implying private medical insurance, but your can ignore that because the Reciprocal Health Care Agreement counts as medical insurance for the purpose of this visa. Since they are British, there should be no query about this and in the event of a query, just send them the link to the RHCA and remind them that it is not age-restricted.

The catch is that if your Parents apply for a stay of 6 months or longer in Oz, in view of their age there is a substantial chance that DIAC will give them the duration of stay that they request, but DIAC will almost certainly impose Condition 8503 on the visas as well. Please see here:

http://www.immi.gov.au/media/fact-sheets/52cImposition_of_visa_condition.htm

If Condition 8503 is imposed, the effect of it would be to prevent your Parents from being able to make a valid application for any other visas for as long as they are on Australian soil. Since they cannot apply for Contributory Aged Parent visas unless they are in Australia when the application is made, that would be the end of the plans for the onshore Contributory Aged Parent visa.

Condition 8503 would force them to make an application for an offshore Contributory Parent visa before they leave the UK in effect.

The only way to be absolutely certain of defeating Condition 8503 would be if your Parents are able to obtain 90-day ETA visas instead. Please see here:

http://www.immi.gov.au/visitors/tourist/976/index.htm

Condition 8503 cannot be imposed on this visa. However if it is granted and they enter Australia on it, you would then have a maximum of 90 days in which to get the Contributory Aged Parent visa application ready and delivered to DIAC’s general office in Oerthm which is here:

http://www.immi.gov.au/contacts/australia/wa-perth.htm

Be in no doubt that your Parents would have to stick to the script until they are safely clear of Perth Airport. If you use this visa, you cannot have them gabbling about an intention to apply for CAP visas once they get to Oz. A 90-day ETA can ONLY be granted if the applicant states an intention to make a short visit to Australia only. They have to state this in the application and then again on the plane, where the passenger disembarkation card asks what the purpose of the trip to Oz is and how long the person plans to stay in Oz for. It would be prudent if they travelled light too. Nobody needs the kitchen sink with them for a 90 day visit, and too much luggage would make even the doziest DIAC aort official smell a rat, to which s/he might or might not turn a blind eye.

In practice, DIAC know this particular game of cat & mouse better than anyone else does, and the ordinary (poorly-paid) local officials are human. They do tend to know all about elderly Parents and blind eyes, but nobody can guarantee that your Parents world not be the unlucky ones who manage to cop Godzilla in a Vile Mood at Passport Control on the day……

If they were my Parents the way that I, personally, would approach this is as follows:

First wait for the breakdown in the new visa quota. Let is get the best ‘fix’ we can on how long processing an offshore CPV application would be likely to take. There is no point in even trying to calculate this until Alan Collett comes back with confirmation of the breakdown of the number of CPVs from 1st July 2008 onwards.

Meanwhile, let us do some serious thinking about how close you really are to being able to say that you are “settled” in Oz, because that question will arise no matter which of the vsas your Parents apply for. From your answers on this point we can get an idea of how long it is likely to be until a viable Parent application can be made.

Then you have to think about the logistics, because their flight to Oz is probably going to be a one-way trip for your Parents. Are they going to sell their house in the UK before they leave, and take a chance on the idea that neither of them will fall ill before their visas can be granted? Are they going to let it instead and then somebody (perhaps you) comes to the UK at a later date in order to organise selling it? What are you going to do about accommodation for them once they get to Oz? Have you investigated any of the Retirement Villages reasonably close to you? For a couple of your Parents’ ages, finding them a home in a Retirement Village might be the best bet. Remember the Bedcocks – the Tribunal was impressed by the fact that they moved straight into their own home in Oz.

Your Parents are contemplating a huge move. They will need time to say their goodbyes in the UK etc. This is bound to have an effect on when they will feel ready to begin the transit into their new lives in Oz, I suggest.

How healthy are they now? Mum is obviously as fit as a fiddle, but what about Dad? At this sort of age, the MOC is dead interested in whether they still have all their mental marbles as well as in their physical health. I don’t know your Parents so I can’t guess whether they are likely to remain in robust health for another couple of years.

What is their attitude to life? Are they prepared to go along with a bit of deception in order to facilitate the onshore visa route? Or would they feel happier if you do everything “by the book” – in which case an offshore CPV application is indicated?

Lots to think about, honey.

Best wishes

Gill

Split of the 2008/09 Parent program confirmed to me by POPC this afternoon:

Go Matilda - Your Gateway to Australia - News

Interesting to note the increase in the number of the old style Parent visas.

Best regards.

Hi again Minlady

Alan Collett is an absolute superstar. As I mentioned yesterday, he has done a huge amount behind the scenes - for no reward - to improve things for Parents and Contributory Parents and his hard work has paid off.

The Minister has increased the quota of Contributory Parent visas to 6,500 in total, which is an extra 3.000 visa a year.

This will bring the processing times down to arund 12-15 months, I reckon, and if an application is handled efficiently 12 months should be do-able.

Which is just fantastic news. I can't tell you how delighted and excited I am. :jiggy:

It makes a massive difference to your own planning as well, I reckon, because my instinct is that the best scenario for your Parents is probably an offshore CPV application coupled with a 12 month tourist visa. No worrying about whether or not this will go to plan or that will go to plan.

Let us speak later, I suggest.

Best wishes

Gill

Hi again Minlady

 

Alan Collett is an absolute superstar. As I mentioned yesterday, he has done a huge amount behind the scenes - for no reward - to improve things for Parents and Contributory Parents and his hard work has paid off.

 

The Minister has increased the quota of Contributory Parent visas to 6,500 in total, which is an extra 3.000 visa a year.

 

This will bring the processing times down to arund 12-15 months, I reckon, and if an application is handled efficiently 12 months should be do-able.

 

Which is just fantastic news. I can't tell you how delighted and excited I am. :jiggy:

 

It makes a massive difference to your own planning as well, I rckon, because my instinct is that the best scenario for your Parents is probably an offshore CPV application coupled with a 12 month tourist visa. No worrying about whether or not this will go to plan or that will go to plan.

 

Let us speak later, I suggest.

 

Best wishes

 

Gill

Yes Gill... i completely agree... prior to this news i was siding on the off shore CPV and now i am even more sure.

It goes hand in hand with our time line in that we can prove on settlement as well.

Let me have a chat with my folks etc and i'll get back to you... and thank you for your time and effort xx

min x:wubclub:

One other thing... is the medical the same for the CPV than the one we went through?... or do they have exceptions with regards age etc?

min x:wubclub:

Hi Minlady

Mum was 85 when her visa meds were done. She is disabled after breaking her back a few years ago. Because of that she needs a zimmer frame to walk indoors at home. She needs a wheelchair for anything more.

The MOC asked for a geriatrician's report. He wanted the geriatrician to comment on the following:

Does Mum have all her mental marbles?

How independent is she in "activities of daily living"?

What is her general state of health?

Does she need residential care either now or in the foreseeable fiture?

Is the able to make the long flight to Oz on her own?

Well - she was in Oz when she saw the geriatrician! We had frontloaded her visa meds in the UK and the Panel Doctor was not expecting to be asked to send her to a geriatrician, so Mum went to Perth. That took care of that question. As for the rest, she was and remains fine. The geriatrician confirmed this and that was the end of it. Mum was given an unconditional OK on her meds.

As long as Parents are basically healthy they certainly don't worry about routine ailments associated with great age, and the real fear (it seems to me) is whether or not they might need residential care.

Best wishes

Gill

Hi Minlady

 

Mum was 85 when her visa meds were done. She is disabled after breaking her back a few years ago. Because of that she needs a zimmer frame to walk indoors at home. She needs a wheelchair for anything more.

 

 

As long as Parents are basically healthy they certainly don't worry about routine ailments associated with great age, and the real fear (it seems to me) is whether or not they might need residential care.

 

quote]

 

Wow Gill.... your mums story is a real inspiration.... what a lady!!!... what is it with OAP's these days.. they put us younger folk to shame.... they have a real fighting spirit.... an attribute lost these days... everything is made far too easy - we live in a disposable world with no values.... we certainly have it too easy...

 

my mother still works as a dancing teacher... 88yrs young and if it wasn't for dad not being able to drive anymore she would still be running around the country at festivals and adjudicating. she has no illnesses and takes no medication except for half an aspirin every so often as she read about it 'thinning the blood'...quote!

 

Dad had a stroke 8 yrs ago and lost the sight in his left eye around 2 yrs ago - at the same time he fractured his hip and now finds walking a little difficult.... due to his CVA he has the usual perscription drugs to prevent further blood clots etc... he is slightly unsteady on his feet but doesn't use a stick or anything... he sleeps alot...but that is definatley an age thing... a little forgetful but nothing serious... if they can remain that way i think they will be fine.... but a geriatritian report is definately a 'must'...

 

i feel they require the help of an agent to sort things out for them... to make it a smooth application... but as they rely on public transport and taxis we are unsure as to who to recommend in the Macclesfield area. We used Ian Harrop but as he is based in Oxon i feel this is too far for them to go 'for a chat'... what do you think?

 

min x:wubclub:

Hi Minlady

From what you say about your Dad, it could be that the MOC would want him to see a geriatrician but I would say don't jump the gun. If the MOC wants a geriatirician to examne Dad, the MOC is likely to ask specific questions that he wants answered - as with my Mum. The MOC might decide that nothing extra is required about your Mum because she has no specific medical history to worry about.

The oldest CPV holder that I've heard of was an old dear from Devon. She was 97 when her CPV was granted in 2005. She was still hiking around on Dartmoor in her late 80s apparently, and refused to consider moving to Oz until she decided she was too old to continue to live by herself. She thought about selling her bungalow and moving into an old folks home but her only child - a daughter living in Victoria - persuaded her to move out to Australia instead. There was a write up about her in a free newspaper thingy that was kicking around in Australia House.

The Panel Doctor in Southampton, when he examined my Mum, said that his own oldest CPV applicant had been a father aged 92. He was hale and heart apparently and the Panel Doctor had heard that he had gone to settle in Oz. Age by itself is defo not an issue with this particular visa!

With regard to getting an Agent to help with your Parents' application, I definitely think it would be a good idea, but I definitely would NOT send your Parents traipsing to Oxford to see Ian Harrop, excellent though I think he is. It simply isn't necessary to wear them out with such a journey there & back.

When poeple are as old as your Parents and my Mum, they do tend to assume that it is necesary for them to have at least one face-to-face meeting with any professional advisor, but in the case of a CPV application for such elderly Parents such a meeting is nothing more than a bit of PR and window-dressing, frankly. The real work is nearly all done between the Agent sand the child who will be the Sponsor and the Assurer and in your own family's case I suspect that you will need more careful guidance from the Agent than your Parents will, actually.

It is imperative that somebody pins you and your OH down to make sure that the possibilities for his own Parents do not get ignored in the immediate quest to help your Parents instead.

It is also pretty clear that you are not going to wait for DIAC's desired two years before you will want your Parents to make a CPV application. The earlier you want to try to make the application, the more professional help you will need so as to make the aplication watertight in terms of providing up-front evidence of your "settled" lifestyle. This bit comes down to you and the Agent between you - your Parents can't really help with it. You do not want the application to end up in the Tribunal, either, so you really should choose an Agent who understands what is do-able with an early application and what would be just too plain risky, I feel.

I'm not an Agent, but since you have only been in Oz for 2 months so far, I would be deeply reluctant even to think about an application for your Parents this side of September 2008. Equally, though, I wouldn't look to trying to obstruct you until 18 months after you have moved to Oz. I do not believe that that degree of caution would be needed in view of your Parents' ages. That would be caution just for the sake of it, which is not on with such an elderly couple, especially when the facts might support going ahead a year earlier.

Presumably you will also want to get your Parents out to Oz very promptly after their CPV application has been submitted and to keep them closer to Oz than to the UK from then on? If my hunch is right, then it would make a lot of sense to use an Agent in Oz, I reckon.

If the "window dressing" with your Parents is important then Shirley & Sheila are good Agents and they are in Carrington. According to Google Maps, that is only 20 miles from Macclesfield and the route does not seem to involve the risk of horrendous traffic jams. If PR is the name of the game then one of them should be willing to get into a car and drive over to Macclesfield in my view. Their website is here:

Permanent Migration Visa : AMA Ltd

Having said that, neither of them is a lawyer and I don't know how good they would be on the potentially tricky legal question of whether or not your lifestyle in Oz has becone sufficiently settled, plus there are only two of them. If they are snowed under, they sometimes say that they will act but that it will be 2 or 3 months before they can actually start work on your behalf. (That is what they said when I rang to ask about the possibility of them acting for my Mum.) Not a problem if you don't mind waiting but unacceptable if you do not want to wait, plainly.

Tony Coates now works with Ian Harrop and Tony would be absolutely OK on the question of whether or not you are settled, plus I think your Parents would like him, though they would only speak with him on the phone. But I suspect it would be easier for you to use an Agent in the same time-zone as you, ie in Oz.

Go Matilda are in Southampton and in Oz. They can actually switch seamlessly between the two according to whether your Parents need a hand or whether you do. Lorraine Beaumont at the UK end would be as good with your Parents as Tony Coates would be, and you would have the woman-to-woman bit between Lorraine & your Mum, which never hurts with the elderly. (Go Matilda are a bit cheaper than Ian Harrop, as well.)

There are some good Agents in Perth, too.

So unless it is essential that there should be a face-to-face meeting between the chosen Agent and your Parents, I'd say you should defer the question of selecting an Agent for the time being. Let us wait and see what the family actually wants to do first (ie whether your Parents want to move to Oz without waiting tfor the CPV to be ready.) And above all, let us give you more time in which to become fully settled in Oz, I would suggest.

Best wishes

Gill

Hi Minlady

 

From what you say about your Dad, it could be that the MOC would want him to see a geriatrician but I would say don't jump the gun. If the MOC wants a geriatirician to examne Dad, the MOC is likely to ask specific questions that he wants answered - as with my Mum. The MOC might decide that nothing extra is required about your Mum because she has no specific medical history to worry about.

 

The oldest CPV holder that I've heard of was an old dear from Devon. She was 97 when her CPV was granted in 2005. She was still hiking around on Dartmoor in her late 80s apparently, and refused to consider moving to Oz until she decided she was too old to continue to live by herself. She thought about selling her bungalow and moving into an old folks home but her only child - a daughter living in Victoria - persuaded her to move out to Australia instead. There was a write up about her in a free newspaper thingy that was kicking around in Australia House.

 

The Panel Doctor in Southampton, when he examined my Mum, said that his own oldest CPV applicant had been a father aged 92. He was hale and heart apparently and the Panel Doctor had heard that he had gone to settle in Oz. Age by itself is defo not an issue with this particular visa!

 

With regard to getting an Agent to help with your Parents' application, I definitely think it would be a good idea, but I definitely would NOT send your Parents traipsing to Oxford to see Ian Harrop, excellent though I think he is. It simply isn't necessary to wear them out with such a journey there & back.

 

When poeple are as old as your Parents and my Mum, they do tend to assume that it is necesary for them to have at least one face-to-face meeting with any professional advisor, but in the case of a CPV application for such elderly Parents such a meeting is nothing more than a bit of PR and window-dressing, frankly. The real work is nearly all done between the Agent sand the child who will be the Sponsor and the Assurer and in your own family's case I suspect that you will need more careful guidance from the Agent than your Parents will, actually.

 

It is imperative that somebody pins you and your OH down to make sure that the possibilities for his own Parents do not get ignored in the immediate quest to help your Parents instead.

 

It is also pretty clear that you are not going to wait for DIAC's desired two years before you will want your Parents to make a CPV application. The earlier you want to try to make the application, the more professional help you will need so as to make the aplication watertight in terms of providing up-front evidence of your "settled" lifestyle. This bit comes down to you and the Agent between you - your Parents can't really help with it. You do not want the application to end up in the Tribunal, either, so you really should choose an Agent who understands what is do-able with an early application and what would be just too plain risky, I feel.

 

I'm not an Agent, but since you have only been in Oz for 2 months so far, I would be deeply reluctant even to think about an application for your Parents this side of September 2008. Equally, though, I wouldn't look to trying to obstruct you until 18 months after you have moved to Oz. I do not believe that that degree of caution would be needed in view of your Parents' ages. That would be caution just for the sake of it, which is not on with such an elderly couple, especially when the facts might support going ahead a year earlier.

 

Presumably you will also want to get your Parents out to Oz very promptly after their CPV application has been submitted and to keep them closer to Oz than to the UK from then on? If my hunch is right, then it would make a lot of sense to use an Agent in Oz, I reckon.

 

If the "window dressing" with your Parents is important then Shirley & Sheila are good Agents and they are in Carrington. According to Google Maps, that is only 20 miles from Macclesfield and the route does not seem to involve the risk of horrendous traffic jams. If PR is the name of the game then one of them should be willing to get into a car and drive over to Macclesfield in my view. Their website is here:

 

Permanent Migration Visa : AMA Ltd

 

Having said that, neither of them is a lawyer and I don't know how good they would be on the potentially tricky legal question of whether or not your lifestyle in Oz has becone sufficiently settled, plus there are only two of them. If they are snowed under, they sometimes say that they will act but that it will be 2 or 3 months before they can actually start work on your behalf. (That is what they said when I rang to ask about the possibility of them acting for my Mum.) Not a problem if you don't mind waiting but unacceptable if you do not want to wait, plainly.

 

Tony Coates now works with Ian Harrop and Tony would be absolutely OK on the question of whether or not you are settled, plus I think your Parents would like him, though they would only speak with him on the phone. But I suspect it would be easier for you to use an Agent in the same time-zone as you, ie in Oz.

 

Go Matilda are in Southampton and in Oz. They can actually switch seamlessly between the two according to whether your Parents need a hand or whether you do. Lorraine Beaumont at the UK end would be as good with your Parents as Tony Coates would be, and you would have the woman-to-woman bit between Lorraine & your Mum, which never hurts with the elderly. (Go Matilda are a bit cheaper than Ian Harrop, as well.)

 

There are some good Agents in Perth, too.

 

So unless it is essential that there should be a face-to-face meeting between the chosen Agent and your Parents, I'd say you should defer the question of selecting an Agent for the time being. Let us wait and see what the family actually wants to do first (ie whether your Parents want to move to Oz without waiting tfor the CPV to be ready.) And above all, let us give you more time in which to become fully settled in Oz, I would suggest.

 

Best wishes

 

Gill

Hi Gill

Well..time has flown by,... we have fully taken your advice....

mum and dad have decided to come on a holiday first and are hoping to travel in october this year and stay with us for about 6 weeks or more to get a feel for the place. after this time they will then decide whether to 'up route' or whether to stay put. if the 'up routing' is decided upon then we shall do all the leg work for them from this end as so not to complicate matters and not to put indue stress into their lives.

we are in the middle of purchasing a home here in perth which will hopfully help our cause with regards to settling.

i have been in touch with several retirement villages and intend to visit them with mum when she is here.

like you suggested we also feel rushing this could ultimately go against us... although time is not on our side... however, we feek showing mum and dad have been here and we own a little part of oz will help in our application following their visit.

min x:wubclub:

Hi minlady

It is lovely to hear from you again, and I am so pleased that your Parents have decided to visit Perth to see what they think. I do believe that Parents should be allowed to inspect Oz before deciding whether or not they want to move there themselves.

One bit of good news I have dscovered is this:

http://www.immi.gov.au/allforms/pdf/1024i.pdf

If you read the Medicare section of Form 1024i, it says that Parent visa applicants are specifically excluded from Medicare if they are in oz on Bridging Visas.

I've always wondered whether the Reciprocal Health Care Agreement between the UK and Oz negates the statement in Form 1024i.

Eventually I got sick of not knowing the answer so I e-mailed both DIAC and Medicare a while back and asked them.

Meicare replied first and firmly. They said that their own policy is to treat holders of Bridging Visas in the same way as tourists if the person is from a country that has a reciprocal health care agreement with Oz.

Visitors to Australia - Medicare Australia

DIAC evidently consulted Medicare before replying to me! Apart from parroting what Medicare had already said, DIAC were at pains to point out that the RHCA does not provide the same level of access to Medicare as is available to an Australian Citizen or Permanent Resident.

Which is true. However my Mum's experience has been that limited Medicare in Oz is of such vastly superior quality to unrestricted access (theoretically) to the NHS in the UK that even restricted Medicare is a very safe haven for an elderly Briton.

Best wishes

Gill

Hi minlady

 

It is lovely to hear from you again, and I am so pleased that your Parents have decided to visit Perth to see what they think. I do believe that Parents should be allowed to inspect Oz before deciding whether or not they want to move there themselves.

 

One bit of good news I have dscovered is this:

 

http://www.immi.gov.au/allforms/pdf/1024i.pdf

 

If you read the Medicare section of Form 1024i, it says that Parent visa applicants are specifically excluded from Medicare if they are in oz on Bridging Visas.

 

I've always wondered whether the Reciprocal Health Care Agreement between the UK and Oz negates the statement in Form 1024i.

 

Eventually I got sick of not knowing the answer so I e-mailed both DIAC and Medicare a while back and asked them.

 

Meicare replied first and firmly. They said that their own policy is to treat holders of Bridging Visas in the same way as tourists if the person is from a country that has a reciprocal health care agreement with Oz.

 

Visitors to Australia - Medicare Australia

 

DIAC evidently consulted Medicare before replying to me! Apart from parroting what Medicare had already said, DIAC were at pains to point out that the RHCA does not provide the same level of access to Medicare as is available to an Australian Citizen or Permanent Resident.

 

Which is true. However my Mum's experience has been that limited Medicare in Oz is of such vastly superior quality to unrestricted access (theoretically) to the NHS in the UK that even restricted Medicare is a very safe haven for an elderly Briton.

 

Best wishes

 

Gill

that is good news... something my parents were fretting over... i think dad thinks he will need it!!! lol

i'll let you know how we go on ... and will probably be back to ask what to do next when they have decided .. lol :notworthy:

min x:wubclub: