Living in Sydney? Driving + House + Salary

We are moving to Sydney from the UK and had a few questions we are hoping locals may be able to answer.

- will we be able to drive to work? or is it like London where you have to use public transport to access the CBD during the week. How do most people commute to work? The public transport network was busy when we were over for a few days so wondered if people drove too.

- is it realistic that we will be able to buy a 2 bedroom house/unit with a garden for under AU$1m within a 45 minute commute of the CBD? We keep hearing that Sydney is the 2nd most expensive city in the world, even more expensive than London which is a frightening thought. We were moving over to have a better quality of life.

- is it realistic to be able to live in Sydney on around AU$150k per annum?

Thank you

Many, if not most, would probably commute by train or bus. My OH commutes on one of the CBD trains (although he doesn't go that far) and they have plenty of space and are mostly reliable. The trains usually are double deckers (at least they are on our line). There are the odd delays from time to time when there is an emergency or breakdown, but in our experience that is infrequent. If you look at sydneytrains.info you'll find route maps and other info. There is also an app which we use called 'Next There' which is fab, and gives you a real-time map, next train or bus etc from any train station or bus stop. I don't know if you can get it from the UK app store though. Driving into the CBD is probably best avoided, unless you work odd shifts and are going in the opposite direction to rush hour traffic, or unless you don't mind a long commute time-wise and have a guaranteed parking space.

I would say yes to your house budget in some areas, no in other areas. It completely depends on which bit of Sydney you want to live in. Of course that depends on where you will be working, because although the train/bus service is fantastic to some areas, it is pretty dire to others. Prices in the more eastern/beach suburbs will be higher, north is higher (but a more difficult commute I think), in the south prices are a bit better but those areas don't have the 'prestige' (I live in the south), in the west prices are much cheaper but of course you are further from the beach.

As for your salary, yes it is possible and plenty do it but that is one of those 'how long is a piece of string' questions, in that things like how often you eat out, how often you holiday, what your mortgage or rental payments will be etc have a huge impact on affordability. We managed here on a bit under $70k as a family of four nine years ago. Now is a completely different matter, and we still struggle on far more than that from time to time (although I suspect having two growing kids at school with all associated numerous costs has something to do with that).

Do you happen to know where you are likely to/will be working? That might help narrow things down a bit.

Oh wow. this is brilliant! Thank you. The area we will be working is called Barangaroo. Is that an easy area to commute to? From looking at maps it is near Wynyard station

Sorry tried to add we will be working in Barangaroo, which from looking at maps is close to Wynyard station.

Have you got a job, if not, what are you basing your salary on?

Sorry tried to add we will be working in Barangaroo, which from looking at maps is close to Wynyard station.

Barangaroo is right in the CBD on the harbour. I worked close by and it's a short walk from Wynyard station. A nice area to work in.

yes that is the offer we have received. with not knowing Australia well we are looking at comparison sites for costs of living but im never sure how accurate they are. so i thought let me ask people who actually know Sydney as that is the best source of real info.

Thank you. I will look at the websites you recommended and the suburbs and work out where best to place ourselves. Could I ask one more question, would a $140k salary in Melbourne get you an easier standard of living than $150 in Sydney? We have heard everything from there is not a huge difference in cost of living to it equates to about $50k a year. Our main focus is to buy our own little place after 10 years of saving for a deposit.

You'd need to get the train to either Wynyard, Circular Quay or Town Hall which are all within a short (20 minutes or less) walk from Barangaroo. That gives you options to the north, west and south on the train line. Of course you could always change trains to give you more flexibility. In our experience the trains and buses are fairly well coordinated and frequent, so you could always change trains to get you to Wynyard which is the shorter walk. I'm not sure about cycling in the CBD (if that's something you'd consider) but OH cycles from our home to the train station (25 mins) every day and finds it a pleasant way to travel except in the extreme heat or thunderstorms, in which case I take/collect him.

For house prices check out domain.com.au. Before we came here I purchased a map of Sydney (you could print one from Google I would think, or zoom in and print a load and tape them together) and then used sydneytrains.info to follow train lines out to an acceptable commute distance, and google maps/directions to follow car routes out to an acceptable distance from where OH's job was to work out an acceptable commute radius. From there I identified suburbs which fit our wish list and budget (because sadly the two don't always go hand in hand) and narrowed our search area down.

Thank you!! That is kind of what we have been doing but with not knowing the way we could commute in that made it more difficult. I feel we doing the right kind of search things which is a relief!!! Thank you so much again.

Thank you!! That is kind of what we have been doing but with not knowing the way we could commute in that made it more difficult. I feel we doing the right kind of search things which is a relief!!! Thank you so much again.

The other thing we did was make a spreadsheet with costs/expenses versus salary. You can easily find grocery prices (Woolworths or Coles), petrol prices, train ticket prices (sydneytrains or opal.com.au). I can't help with things like water charges or electricity because we are in a different situation to what you may be (family of four, outer southern suburbs, solar panels, solar hot water, large house, no gas etc) but others may be able to give you an idea of costs if you can narrow the area and your lifestyle down.

I can't help with things like water charges or electricity because we are in a different situation to what you may be (family of four, outer southern suburbs, solar panels, solar hot water, large house, no gas etc) but others may be able to give you an idea of costs if you can narrow the area and your lifestyle down.

You can put your (proposed) details into Compare the Market's Aussie website and they will give you the electricity and gas costs from various providers, like they do with insurance.

Hi there to the OP,

My 2 cents worth below? I get the impression that you guys are a single/couple coming over with no kids, is this correct? Just that your costs will be different with/without kids.

Is the $150k before/after tax, including/excluding super? Let's assume it is before tax but excluding super. Super is a mandatory pension contribution of 9.5% of Salary, it goes into your own private fund for retirement but can't be accessed until you retire.

$150k gross should give you about $8,500 - $8,800 pm into your hand after tax (you will find a tax calculator on the ATO website), possibly a bit more if this is split over 2 incomes. You can have a nice lifestyle for that in Sydney (although it is expensive). Your main cost will be accomodation and will depend on mortgage v renting and area and quality of the accomodation. I think $650-$800 pw rent will get you a nice 2 bed apartment in an inner ring suburb (30-40 min commute to the city), possibly a small house if you prefer. Note you will need to kit it out as 95%+ of rentals are unfurnished.

Electricity should be $250-$400 pq depending on how much you have aircon/heating on. Leisure/lifestyle is your next biggest cost so really depends on how often you want to eat out, what places you chose to go out to etc. If you are living in inner Sydney, it is possible/maybe even desireable to live without a car. There are car share schemes available where you rent a car when you need it for as little as $6 per hour (check out goget.com.au as an example). I lived in Balmain for 31/2 years comfortably without a car. When I did buy one, I did 20k Km in 3 years including about 4 trips to the snow pa (about 1,000km each). So really it was a waste of money and I should have stuck with Go get. Another good option is to get your motorbike license and buy a scooter ($3,000 new), cheap, easy to run, easy to park, beats the traffic (bus lanes, lane filtering). All up, you can have a very nice lifestyle for $6/6.5k pm allowing you save about $2k pm for a property/investment

Some people do drive into the CBD everyday, personally I think they are mad. Sydney traffic is horrendus, although on a scooter/bike it is doable. Barangaroo is the new area on the western side of the CBD, offices still opening up down there, expected to have about 20k people working there when finished. As such, it has no direct train line to it yet (the new North west line is due to go through there but is a few years away yet). Wynard is the closest train station and is about 800m away (5-10min walk). They have opened up a direct walkway (part tunnel part bridge) from Wynard to Barangaroo which avoids all the traffic lights etc. Depending on where you live, ferry may be an option too. Barangraoo is on the water (north of Darling harbour, King st wharf). There are ferries to King St wharf, particularly the Parramatta river service and Balmain / Milsons point service. I think the plan is to move the wharf to the B end and add more services in time. It's a nice way to travel to work. Public transport is reasonably good for inner Sydney, further out people seem to have issues. Good trains, buses and ferries and at long last has teh Opal card (similar to the Oyster card in London).

On the Sydney v Melbourne thing, they are very different cities , each with their own pros and cons. I find Melbourne about 10% cheaper than Sydney but salaries are lower. Accomodation is cheaper in Melbourne and there are signs of an oversupply of apartments starting to be experienced now which is expected to at least halt price growth. IMO, Melbourne is more of a European city, a really nice vibe to it, nice people too (a bit more approachable than Sydney) but the weather tends to be more extreme and variable (4 seasons in 1 day). No lock out laws so has a decent night life too for those that want it It's been in the top 3 of most liveable cities for years.

Sydney is stunning asthetically, the harbour is amazing. The vibe has improved with all the small bars which have opened up in recent years. The mayor is doing her best to make it a more liveable place (despite the political parties trying to strip her of power repeatedly). It's going through a bit of turmoil at the moment with a lot of building going on (light rail, NW rail) which will improve it in the longterm. Generally a fairly nice climate (although melting this weekend). Always stuff on and things to do. Good beaches on the harbour and the ocean. It can be up it's own arse at times and always looking for the next trendy thing. Traffic is horrendus, 7 days a week.

Would your $140k in Melbourne go further than $150k in Sydney? I believe it would. The lower salary (probably $500-$600 pm) would be more than offset by cheaper rent and cost of living. Sydney is more the Australian dream though IMO. A sunny day on the harbour, jumping on a ferry to Manly, Watsons bay etc a gig at the Opera house, drinks on the water etc. but you pay for it.

Hope this helps.

Hi there to the OP,

 

My 2 cents worth below? I get the impression that you guys are a single/couple coming over with no kids, is this correct? Just that your costs will be different with/without kids.

 

Is the $150k before/after tax, including/excluding super? Let's assume it is before tax but excluding super. Super is a mandatory pension contribution of 9.5% of Salary, it goes into your own private fund for retirement but can't be accessed until you retire.

 

$150k gross should give you about $8,500 - $8,800 pm into your hand after tax (you will find a tax calculator on the ATO website), possibly a bit more if this is split over 2 incomes. You can have a nice lifestyle for that in Sydney (although it is expensive). Your main cost will be accomodation and will depend on mortgage v renting and area and quality of the accomodation. I think $650-$800 pw rent will get you a nice 2 bed apartment in an inner ring suburb (30-40 min commute to the city), possibly a small house if you prefer. Note you will need to kit it out as 95%+ of rentals are unfurnished.

 

Electricity should be $250-$400 pq depending on how much you have aircon/heating on. Leisure/lifestyle is your next biggest cost so really depends on how often you want to eat out, what places you chose to go out to etc. If you are living in inner Sydney, it is possible/maybe even desireable to live without a car. There are car share schemes available where you rent a car when you need it for as little as $6 per hour (check out goget.com.au as an example). I lived in Balmain for 31/2 years comfortably without a car. When I did buy one, I did 20k Km in 3 years including about 4 trips to the snow pa (about 1,000km each). So really it was a waste of money and I should have stuck with Go get. Another good option is to get your motorbike license and buy a scooter ($3,000 new), cheap, easy to run, easy to park, beats the traffic (bus lanes, lane filtering). All up, you can have a very nice lifestyle for $6/6.5k pm allowing you save about $2k pm for a property/investment

 

Some people do drive into the CBD everyday, personally I think they are mad. Sydney traffic is horrendus, although on a scooter/bike it is doable. Barangaroo is the new area on the western side of the CBD, offices still opening up down there, expected to have about 20k people working there when finished. As such, it has no direct train line to it yet (the new North west line is due to go through there but is a few years away yet). Wynard is the closest train station and is about 800m away (5-10min walk). They have opened up a direct walkway (part tunnel part bridge) from Wynard to Barangaroo which avoids all the traffic lights etc. Depending on where you live, ferry may be an option too. Barangraoo is on the water (north of Darling harbour, King st wharf). There are ferries to King St wharf, particularly the Parramatta river service and Balmain / Milsons point service. I think the plan is to move the wharf to the B end and add more services in time. It's a nice way to travel to work. Public transport is reasonably good for inner Sydney, further out people seem to have issues. Good trains, buses and ferries and at long last has teh Opal card (similar to the Oyster card in London).

 

On the Sydney v Melbourne thing, they are very different cities , each with their own pros and cons. I find Melbourne about 10% cheaper than Sydney but salaries are lower. Accomodation is cheaper in Melbourne and there are signs of an oversupply of apartments starting to be experienced now which is expected to at least halt price growth. IMO, Melbourne is more of a European city, a really nice vibe to it, nice people too (a bit more approachable than Sydney) but the weather tends to be more extreme and variable (4 seasons in 1 day). No lock out laws so has a decent night life too for those that want it It's been in the top 3 of most liveable cities for years.

 

Sydney is stunning asthetically, the harbour is amazing. The vibe has improved with all the small bars which have opened up in recent years. The mayor is doing her best to make it a more liveable place (despite the political parties trying to strip her of power repeatedly). It's going through a bit of turmoil at the moment with a lot of building going on (light rail, NW rail) which will improve it in the longterm. Generally a fairly nice climate (although melting this weekend). Always stuff on and things to do. Good beaches on the harbour and the ocean. It can be up it's own arse at times and always looking for the next trendy thing. Traffic is horrendus, 7 days a week.

 

Would your $140k in Melbourne go further than $150k in Sydney? I believe it would. The lower salary (probably $500-$600 pm) would be more than offset by cheaper rent and cost of living. Sydney is more the Australian dream though IMO. A sunny day on the harbour, jumping on a ferry to Manly, Watsons bay etc a gig at the Opera house, drinks on the water etc. but you pay for it.

 

Hope this helps.

Excellent post. The only thing I would add is to consider your $1m budget to buy. You wouldn't get a house within a decent area (or one you would want to live in) close to the CBD for this amount. A unit with large outside space - possibly.

A two bed house for less than A$1M 45 mins from Barangaroo is unlikely. 2 bed houses in Marrickville which is 30 mins by train currently go for around $ 1.25 - $1.3. A unit would be possible. When checking prices on Domain.com.au look at the sold section not for sale. In Sydney the practice is to issue a price guide which is 10% below what the seller wants. Right now as the market is so hot most properties are going for 25% over the price guide. So to spend $1M you would have to look at properties advertised around 800k. You also have to add on stamp duty which for $1m = $40K (yep 40 not 4)

http://stampduty.calculatorsaustralia.com.au/stamp-duty-nsw

I don't know Melbourne well enough to comment

If you are not a permanent resident you will need FIRB approval. For a house this will be an issue as you have to apply for each house you like, in Sydney properties are auctioned 3-4 weeks after they go on the market and I believe the process can take longer than that. Units tend to be sold by private treaty ( the UK method) so will be easier

http://firb.gov.au/

Take home on on $150k is around $8500 per month depending on whether the 150 includes the mandatory pension contribution. You can rent a nice 2 bed unit for around $750 a week about $3k a month so you could happily live on that IMO.

It helps so so much!!!! Thank you. So much useful info! Just the 2 of us but no kids (yet). We really want a little house with a garden and are really eager to buy somewhere asap after we arrive, which realistically will hopefully be in around 6 months. Sydney does seem more and more like London. The downfall though is that Sydney seems to offer far better career opportunities than Melbourne. But as we are coming over for a change in lifestyle we may need to sacrifice careers and choose Melbourne. It is a tough choice.

A unit is perfect, provided it had its own garden. Thanks for the info. Any idea if this would be a more realistic budget for Melbourne?

oh wow, we didnt know this so thank you! gosh we really need to compare this to Melbourne now.

Houses are pretty damn expensive. They seem to have shot up even in the 20 months since we arrived. Crazy money! But it might be possible to find a decent place, or maybe if you flex a little bit higher, you might get what you want.

Most people I know who bought here 10 years ago seem to be very happy they did, as the houses have all doubled in price. technically they could go down, but I think Sydney is a bit like London. The value rise might slow a bit for a while, but they never really lose value. they just get more expensive over time.

Other people we know here have moved a couple of times to get the right kind of place over a few years. Unit, Bigger unit, small house, bigger house type of deal.

Thank you. Want just want a 2 bedroom house or unit with a garden that we could commute to Barangaroo in preferably under 45 mins. Seems that may be a bit unrealistic though.

Maybe the commute could be an hour. not such a big deal maybe?

Barangaroo currently is a little bit fiddly to get t. It's 5-10 mins walk from Wynyard. Lots of poeple we now when we lived on the North Shore trainline work there (those big banks headquarters etc). Not sure of prices, but some of the lower north shore is nice. Crows Nest, Cammeray, St Leonards, Naremburn, Woolstonecraft all these places are near the train and bus routes. These would all be half an hour from Barangaroo.

I'd rather commute a bit further and live in a better place. We live in the North East corner of Sydney and the commute is about 70 mins. It's not ideal, but weekend are great.

also - if you don't have kids in school, then you could just rent for a bit. find out for yourself where you like. Then if you buy, you'll know what you're doing

We live in Kensington, just south west of Centennial Park off Anzac Parade. I think Barangaroo is around 30-35 mins by bus from ours, and its only $3.50 (2 pounds) each way.

We have a recently refurbished 2 bedroom unit on a side street, and its pretty quiet, and we pay $600 a week (think this will rise to $630/wk when we renew our lease in July). We don't have a garden, but we have a balcony, and will do us until we have a kid and want a bit of outdoor space. Kensington/Randwick is good (although full of Poms!), there's a couple of supermarkets, gyms, restaurants etc, and only 10 mins car ride (20 mins bus) to the beach at Coogee/Clovely).

Our income isn't so different from yours, and we run two cars (I work at North Rocks to the west, which is an hour drive, or 35 mins via tolls at $15 each way, so I have to be sensible about which way I go sometimes), paying for our wedding in 8 weeks, and some saving for a house. Unlike the UK, we dont spend loads on getting out and doing things, as when you want to get out and do something we just go out for walks/cycle/beach etc.

Hope this helps,

Dan

You can buy a nice 2 bed unit with a garden within your budget in the inner west. We live in Erskineville and its only 20 mins on the train to Wynyard. There's lots of interesting suburbs on the train line into the city to consider. Lots of character, infrastructure and stuff going on in the inner west, and it only takes me 23 minutes to drive to the nearest beach.