NHS clock on sky news

Today we have a nhs clock giving a running total of nhs costs for today from midnight ,Thursday ( 24 hours) ...we are currently at £235 million and its not 3pm yet .

I think the nhs ,is a national institution ,the envy of the world ,free at point of entry .

But with costs like these its unsustainable .

Some will say its the ageing population ,some say its the volume of use,with most hospitals at near 100% capacity .

£141 BILLION A YEAR

Today we have a nhs clock giving a running total of nhs costs for today from midnight ,Thursday ( 24 hours) ...we are currently at £235 million and its not 3pm yet .

I think the nhs ,is a national institution ,the envy of the world ,free at point of entry .

But with costs like these its unsustainable .

 

Some will say its the ageing population ,some say its the volume of use,with most hospitals at near 100% capacity .

 

 

£141 BILLION A YEAR

This is exactly what the Tories want you to believe, funny this ploy is being done by Murdoch's channel, Murdoch is vehemently opposed to the NHS as there is no profit in it for his American and UK vulture capitalist cronies.

What is necessary is to compare the cost of the NHS to other European free health services and then it becomes clear that the NHS is very good value.

 

This is exactly what the Tories want you to believe, funny this ploy is being done by Murdoch's channel, Murdoch is vehemently opposed to the NHS as there is no profit in it for his American and UK vulture capitalist cronies.

What is necessary is to compare the cost of the NHS to other European free health services and then it becomes clear that the NHS is very good value.

Here we go again .....it was just a post about the coat of the nhs ...once again ,no solutions ,just the " same old ,same old " ...trump last week ...and now Murdoch ...i won't be replying ...iam bored now .

If it is £141 billion a year ...even if its 100 billion its unsustainable ...you cannot keep chucking more billions at it ...

By the way ,iam totally against privatisation ...just like royal mail and the rail service

 

This is exactly what the Tories want you to believe, funny this ploy is being done by Murdoch's channel, Murdoch is vehemently opposed to the NHS as there is no profit in it for his American and UK vulture capitalist cronies.

What is necessary is to compare the cost of the NHS to other European free health services and then it becomes clear that the NHS is very good value.

I love the NHS, but the reality is, we as a society are going to have to make some hard choices soon. The cost of what it costs to run social security and the NHS are vastly different to what they were when it was set up.

That isn't surprising, just look at the technology. Look at say the 60's. Phone for an ambulance and you got a couple of guys in a white van. Today, you get a high tech piece of equipment turn up with two highly trained professionals. The technology in place in hospitals is incredible. But, it all costs money.

We can not expect the same amount of money to cover what it did. So, we need to find it from somewhere and probably take some hard look at what we want and what we are prepared to give up.

Today we have a nhs clock giving a running total of nhs costs for today from midnight ,Thursday ( 24 hours) ...we are currently at £235 million and its not 3pm yet .

I think the nhs ,is a national institution ,the envy of the world ,free at point of entry .

But with costs like these its unsustainable .

 

Some will say its the ageing population ,some say its the volume of use,with most hospitals at near 100% capacity .

 

 

£141 BILLION A YEAR

We pay much less in GDP for the NHS than most other countries and that amount has reduced over the past few years from 14% to (I was shocked to hear the other day) 10%!

The tories have an agenda to convince the public that it's unsustainable so they can sell it off to either themselves or the American insurance companies. I'm not sure that they would be queuing up to buy it if they thought they couldn't make a tidy profit from it.

We have an ageing population and cuts in the care system is one of the main reasons that the NHS is seeing the pressures it is this winter. That, plus cuts and the inability to persuade drs to become GPs, thus putting additional pressure on primary care, mean that secondary care is really suffering.

If no one wakes up and really sees what's happening the NHS will be gone, or the taxpayer will be paying an awful lot more into the pockets of the insurance companies and private providers.

I would say due to an ageing and over population. Rarely see foreigners in hospital and get tired of hearing that line by people who don't actually work in the NHS. To be honest I would happily pay a bit more tax if I 100% knew it was going to improve NHS services (and pay!).

Here we go again .....it was just a post about the coat of the nhs ...once again ,no solutions ,just the " same old ,same old " ...trump last week ...and now Murdoch ...i won't be replying ...iam bored now .

If it is £141 billion a year ...even if its 100 billion its unsustainable ...you cannot keep chucking more billions at it ...

By the way ,iam totally against privatisation ...just like royal mail and the rail service

How can you be against privatisation but say we are spending too much on it, partial payment schemes cost an enormous amount to administer so part contribution has to be set quite high and the people who make most use are generally exempt from charges, there has been too great a concentration on hospitals and not on primary care but there has not been enough investment in producing enough GP's nor recognition of the demographic of GP's who are also aging, without enough GP's the hospitals are where all ill people go then, then there has been dramatic reduction in funding for nursing homes, partly because of this present govts cuts in funding but also because the aged care industry is dominated by big business who have a funding regime which is agreed by the govt and then Local govt has to pay that rate with no competition between providers, this has led to a lack of beds that Local govt can affotrd,, hospital beds are blocked by relatively well old people who are not capable of independent living.

A further problem is that most trusts are having to pay PFI costs that have to be paid before any other costs are met and now some of those PFI buildings are already becoming unfit for purpose.

Many in the hospital world want to change how things are done but to change the systems it almost needs double the money to achieve the change as you have to run both systems at once.

This govt imposed the present system by breaking hospitals into individual entities each with a separate CEO, finance dept and a separate HR dept and so on, no national company would adopt such an expensive and inefficient management structure.

It is no use blaming patients, doctors and nurses, the fault lies with a govt which is ideologically opposed to socialised medicine .

Today we have a nhs clock giving a running total of nhs costs for today from midnight ,Thursday ( 24 hours) ...we are currently at £235 million and its not 3pm yet .

I think the nhs ,is a national institution ,the envy of the world ,free at point of entry .

But with costs like these its unsustainable .

 

Some will say its the ageing population ,some say its the volume of use,with most hospitals at near 100% capacity .

 

 

£141 BILLION A YEAR

NHS funding is falling behind European neighbours' average, research finds

Britain’s spending on its health service is falling by international standards and, by 2020, will be £43bn less a year than the average spent by its European neighbours, according to research by the King’s Fund.

The UK is devoting a diminishing proportion of GDP in health and is now a lowly 13th out of the original 15 EU members in terms of investment, an analysis for the Guardian by the thinktank’s chief economist shows.

BBC guide to exactly how sh** things have become http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-34905806

But of course if you have a different opinion then it'll just be propaganda!

I do like the Aussie MediCare setup and think that it has certain advantages, privatised outpatient services seems efficient and cost effective.

The NHS is an absolute lottery, if you live in the right area in the UK it can be great, if you live in a Northern working town, you'd be better off searching google for answers.

With an increasing and ageing population the NHS has gone through cutbacks, clearly the opposite of what should be happening. In a country with over 100 billionaires and the 6th largest GDP, surely some extra tax could be recovered to improve the countries infrastructure. The UK operates as a tax haven if you are anything other then <100k employee.

Today we have a nhs clock giving a running total of nhs costs for today from midnight ,Thursday ( 24 hours) ...we are currently at £235 million and its not 3pm yet .

I think the nhs ,is a national institution ,the envy of the world ,free at point of entry .

But with costs like these its unsustainable .

 

Some will say its the ageing population ,some say its the volume of use,with most hospitals at near 100% capacity .

 

 

£141 BILLION A YEAR

That might sound like a lot - until you hear that the US spent US$3.8 Trillion a year on health in 2013 (Forbes estimate) - but then their health care provision is very badly organised - and Australia despite it's much smaller population spent Au$121.4 billion in 2009/10 (70% of which was directly government funded with additional amounts via health insurance rebates).

That might sound like a lot - until you hear that the US spent US$3.8 Trillion a year on health in 2013 (Forbes estimate) - but then their health care provision is very badly organised - and Australia despite it's much smaller population spent Au$121.4 billion in 2009/10 (70% of which was directly government funded with additional amounts via health insurance rebates).

So the spending clock in most other developed countries is actually faster than the UK clock....none story.....this also takes in wages etc etc

And we still spend less per head than most of Europe....Migrants who come and work are young fit people who do no use the NHS anything like the older generation and put more in than they take out.

Not sure I'd say that's true . Young people have babies which for most people still happens in hospital and is pretty darn expensive, especially if you are lucky enough to be healthy in later life. There is a growing trend towards unessesary ceserean sections, which are enormously expensive, added to that help with fertility etc. All adds up for a young person.

Not sure I'd say that's true . Young people have babies which for most people still happens in hospital and is pretty darn expensive, especially if you are lucky enough to be healthy in later life. There is a growing trend towards unessesary ceserean sections, which are enormously expensive, added to that help with fertility etc. All adds up for a young person.

You can't just elect to have a caesarean on the NHS. It has to be recommended by an NHS doctor so can hardly be described as unnecessary. Perhaps you're saying NHS doctors are becoming unnecessarily cautious in their recommendations? If so that's for NICE to reassess the circumstances in which caesareans are best practice.

How can you be against privatisation but say we are spending too much on it, partial payment schemes cost an enormous amount to administer so part contribution has to be set quite high and the people who make most use are generally exempt from charges, there has been too great a concentration on hospitals and not on primary care but there has not been enough investment in producing enough GP's nor recognition of the demographic of GP's who are also aging, without enough GP's the hospitals are where all ill people go then, then there has been dramatic reduction in funding for nursing homes, partly because of this present govts cuts in funding but also because the aged care industry is dominated by big business who have a funding regime which is agreed by the govt and then Local govt has to pay that rate with no competition between providers, this has led to a lack of beds that Local govt can affotrd,, hospital beds are blocked by relatively well old people who are not capable of independent living.

A further problem is that most trusts are having to pay PFI costs that have to be paid before any other costs are met and now some of those PFI buildings are already becoming unfit for purpose.

Many in the hospital world want to change how things are done but to change the systems it almost needs double the money to achieve the change as you have to run both systems at once.

 

This govt imposed the present system by breaking hospitals into individual entities each with a separate CEO, finance dept and a separate HR dept and so on, no national company would adopt such an expensive and inefficient management structure.

 

It is no use blaming patients, doctors and nurses, the fault lies with a govt which is ideologically opposed to socialised medicine .

'Like', you have nailed most of the key issues right there. Successive governments have lumbered the NHS with expensive corporate boards and huge PFI costs.

How can you be against privatisation but say we are spending too much on it, partial payment schemes cost an enormous amount to administer so part contribution has to be set quite high and the people who make most use are generally exempt from charges, there has been too great a concentration on hospitals and not on primary care but there has not been enough investment in producing enough GP's nor recognition of the demographic of GP's who are also aging, without enough GP's the hospitals are where all ill people go then, then there has been dramatic reduction in funding for nursing homes, partly because of this present govts cuts in funding but also because the aged care industry is dominated by big business who have a funding regime which is agreed by the govt and then Local govt has to pay that rate with no competition between providers, this has led to a lack of beds that Local govt can affotrd,, hospital beds are blocked by relatively well old people who are not capable of independent living.

A further problem is that most trusts are having to pay PFI costs that have to be paid before any other costs are met and now some of those PFI buildings are already becoming unfit for purpose.

Many in the hospital world want to change how things are done but to change the systems it almost needs double the money to achieve the change as you have to run both systems at once.

 

This govt imposed the present system by breaking hospitals into individual entities each with a separate CEO, finance dept and a separate HR dept and so on, no national company would adopt such an expensive and inefficient management structure.

 

It is no use blaming patients, doctors and nurses, the fault lies with a govt which is ideologically opposed to socialised medicine .

:notworthy:

:notworthy:

Thank you, I'll take a curtain call and point out that this govt no longer subsidise nursing training and applications are already down and this is the first year they have expanded doctor trainig places but as that takes 6? years don't hold your breath as EU doctors bugger off home.

You couldn't make it up if you tried!!!!

Thank you, I'll take a curtain call and point out that this govt no longer subsidise nursing training and applications are already down and this is the first year they have expanded doctor trainig places but as that takes 6? years don't hold your breath as EU doctors bugger off home.

 

You couldn't make it up if you tried!!!!

You can't just elect to have a caesarean on the NHS. It has to be recommended by an NHS doctor so can hardly be described as unnecessary. Perhaps you're saying NHS doctors are becoming unnecessarily cautious in their recommendations? If so that's for NICE to reassess the circumstances in which caesareans are best practice.

I love the NHS, but the reality is, we as a society are going to have to make some hard choices soon. The cost of what it costs to run social security and the NHS are vastly different to what they were when it was set up.

 

That isn't surprising, just look at the technology. Look at say the 60's. Phone for an ambulance and you got a couple of guys in a white van. Today, you get a high tech piece of equipment turn up with two highly trained professionals. The technology in place in hospitals is incredible. But, it all costs money.

 

We can not expect the same amount of money to cover what it did. So, we need to find it from somewhere and probably take some hard look at what we want and what we are prepared to give up.

can't we just spend the money we save from brexit n it?

Yes. I know this has been a big thing about the 350 million. Though, by the time we leave that could be the actual figure. The current EU agreed figure is between 200 and 250 million a week. After rebate. Given payments are currently rising far faster than inflation, it could be.

However, while that may be a good stop gap. It will end up the same as any increase. Not enough.

My personal view is that we first need to look at spending and look to abolish in work benefits. These are a new phenomenon and not a good one as all they do is subsidise business and allow them to pay as little as possible in the knowledge that the tax payer picks up the rest. Stupid. Then we need to look at other big areas of spend get a lot smarter. There is still huge waste. For example, I a, being treated for a melanoma. The treatment is excellent but, I also have excma. Now, when I go to the see the dermatologist she writes a script, which I have to then take to the GP to re write. Madness.

I believe a ring fenced tax similar to what thr NI system was designed for but totally ring fenced and then a major review of spending across the board, including the total idiocy of international aid - cancelled. We currently borrow money to give to countries who blow it like a teen in a casino.

Thank you, I'll take a curtain call and point out that this govt no longer subsidise nursing training and applications are already down and this is the first year they have expanded doctor trainig places but as that takes 6? years don't hold your breath as EU doctors bugger off home.

 

You couldn't make it up if you tried!!!!

Yes, the domestic applications are down, as are those qualified nurses from the EU - too risky for anyone to make that commitment at the moment. Along with the exodus of experienced nurses, the NHS is almost past crisis point.

We're looking to leave again for a few years and my husband (dr) has been approached by Australia, Canada, SE Asia, amongst others. He went to a meeting re SE Asia last weekend and there were six of his colleagues also st that meeting and there are jobs available for all of them. This is from a trust which already has multiple vacancies it can't fill and has had a trip to India to recruit from there.

It's very sad to watch what's happening, but good will only lasts so long and highly qualified and experienced staff have lots of options which have better working conditions than the ones they're expected to live with now.