Is this corbyn Waterloo?

If he can't succeed here should be resign?

 

 

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/01/13/tristram-hunt-quits-labour-mp-triggering-by-election-brexit/

Nah, the Conservatives need him right now

*changed my mind* didn't want to get into politics on the internet in 2017!

Edited January 14, 2017 by Captain Roberto

He'll hang on to the bitter end.

If he can't succeed here should be resign?

 

 

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/01/13/tristram-hunt-quits-labour-mp-triggering-by-election-brexit/

 

He will hang on until the end ...but the champagne socialists in London JUST DONT GET IT ....the working class ,predominantly in the north ,feel Tha labour doesn't represent them anymore .

Brexit and now trump in the u.s

He will hang on until the end ...but the champagne socialists in London JUST DONT GET IT ....the working class ,predominantly in the north ,feel Tha labour doesn't represent them anymore .

Brexit and now trump in the u.s

Spot on, the silly old sod was banging on about improving services so as to be able to integrate more immigrants, HELLO Jezza, did the Brexit message go completely over your head?

Spot on, the silly old sod was banging on about improving services so as to be able to integrate more immigrants, HELLO Jezza, did the Brexit message go completely over your head?

 

JOHN MANN the labour mp gets it ,and saw it coming ....brexit that is .

 

I don't profess to know the shortcomings of the nhs ,and its funding budget .

The nhs is a national institution and should be protected and funded at all costs .

 

But ambulance calls were UP something like 17% last year ...something like 160,000 extra calls .( these are my recollections from a senior ambulance driver ,interviewed on the radio )

 

HELLO WESTMINSTER WAKEY WAKEY !....those rises are unsustainable ....if we keep raising the population unnaturally ,services are going to break .

This has only become really visible in the last 5 years

JOHN MANN the labour mp gets it ,and saw it coming ....brexit that is .

 

I don't profess to know the shortcomings of the nhs ,and its funding budget .

The nhs is a national institution and should be protected and funded at all costs .

 

But ambulance calls were UP something like 17% last year ...something like 160,000 extra calls .( these are my recollections from a senior ambulance driver ,interviewed on the radio )

 

HELLO WESTMINSTER WAKEY WAKEY !....those rises are unsustainable ....if we keep raising the population unnaturally ,services are going to break .

This has only become really visible in the last 5 years

probably more to do with the aging of the population rather than the size of it. Old people use health care more.

 

The only solution I can see is a move towards an Australian style system for healthcare and pensions.

 

But you are right. Corbyn seems to be out of touch. Possibly spending all foreign aid internally until we raise our own poor out of poverty could help. He needs some bones to throw to the dogs.

Edited January 14, 2017 by newjez

probably more to do with the aging of the population rather than the size of it. Old people use health care more.

 

The only solution I can see is a move towards an Australian style system for healthcare and pensions.

 

But you are right. Corbyn seems to be out of touch. Possibly spending all foreign aid internally until we raise our own poor out of poverty could help. He needs some bones to throw to the dogs.

 

Based on NI numbers, the last full year of figures, we had about 830,000 people arrive. About the population of Liverpool. In one year. did we build the dozen or so hospitals that Liverpool has? Did we train all the extra staff that Liverpool has - on top of requirement? Of course not. We could not keep up with that.

 

And these do not include those that do not bother with NI - think all those car washes charging £10 have staff paying tax and NI. Of course not. The actual figure is probably twice or three times. That is London over 3 years.

 

For those that have argued against Brexit, this alone should be a silencer.

Based on NI numbers, the last full year of figures, we had about 830,000 people arrive. About the population of Liverpool. In one year. did we build the dozen or so hospitals that Liverpool has? Did we train all the extra staff that Liverpool has - on top of requirement? Of course not. We could not keep up with that.

 

And these do not include those that do not bother with NI - think all those car washes charging £10 have staff paying tax and NI. Of course not. The actual figure is probably twice or three times. That is London over 3 years.

 

For those that have argued against Brexit, this alone should be a silencer.

 

Spot on vs ...what do we wait until the population is 100 million FFS ....its sustainable now ...never mind in 10 years...absolute bonkers politics by previous govts

A bit of both; age is a factor but you can't inject 6 million people into a population of 58 million in just a few years and not expect there to be some serious impacts on services. Many of these are people who've come from parts of the world with minimal public services and once let loose in the UK with free everything they tend to go a bit mad and claim everything they can, not just what they need - or so family in the NHS are telling me!

Based on NI numbers, the last full year of figures, we had about 830,000 people arrive. About the population of Liverpool. In one year. did we build the dozen or so hospitals that Liverpool has? Did we train all the extra staff that Liverpool has - on top of requirement? Of course not. We could not keep up with that.

 

And these do not include those that do not bother with NI - think all those car washes charging £10 have staff paying tax and NI. Of course not. The actual figure is probably twice or three times. That is London over 3 years.

 

For those that have argued against Brexit, this alone should be a silencer.

blaming all the UK problems on immigration is a bit like Nazi Germany blaming all their problems on the Jews. Australia has twice the immigration rate that the UK has. Is it falling apart at the seams?

 

Don't get me wrong, I do believe we should have some controls on immigration. But I really don't think immigration are the sources of all our problems. Not unless you can point at those same problems in Australia. Immigration is an indication of our success and Europe's failure.

 

You can't just blame poor regressive government and incompetent economics on immigration. It's a cop out.

Edited January 15, 2017 by newjez

A bit of both; age is a factor but you can't inject 6 million people into a population of 58 million in just a few years and not expect there to be some serious impacts on services. Many of these are people who've come from parts of the world with minimal public services and once let loose in the UK with free everything they tend to go a bit mad and claim everything they can, not just what they need - or so family in the NHS are telling me!

daily mail fail. Immigration is keeping the NHS together. You really think policies like removing nurses bursaries are going to help matters? Immigration is a tool of short sighted government. But you need to fix the government. Turn off immigration without doing that and you will just see the infrastructure fall apart. All brexit will do without substantial changes in government policy is reduce EU migration and increase non EU migration. We need to address the cause of the problems, not the symptoms.

 

 

https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=changes+to+nurses+bursary+2014&oq=changes+to+nurses+burs&aqs=chrome.1.69i57j33l2.15046j0j4&client=tablet-android-pega&sourceid=chrome-mobile&ie=UTF-8&sesinv=1&authuser=0

But I do agree that to appease the masses a viable labour govt will need to 'poke the immigrants with a stick's'. You can't really be seen in public these days without a regressive immigration policy. But they also need to look at investment in education and training to replace these immigrants. For too long we have leeched off the universities of third world countries. If we are to stop those taps, we will need to open our own and the money will need to come from somewhere. This isn't a brexit arguement, as brexit will only swap EU migration for non EU migration. If they really want to cut immigration, they need to have some pretty substantial policy to cater for that. Where will they train people? Where will they get the money? How will they deal with inflation and avoid boom bust economics.

 

So far there has been deathly silence of the world after reduced immigration.

 

Of course the stupid argument is, they will just cut it. If it were that simple, why didn't May cut it in all her years in the home office? Because immigration is a symptom not a cause, and if you just treat symptoms without addressing the underlying problem, it won't end well.

Edited January 15, 2017 by newjez

blaming all the UK problems on immigration is a bit like Nazi Germany blaming all their problems on the Jews. Australia has twice the immigration rate that the UK has. Is it falling apart at the seams?

 

Don't get me wrong, I do believe we should have some controls on immigration. But I really don't think immigration are the sources of all our problems. Not unless you can point at those same problems in Australia. Immigration is an indication of our success and Europe's failure.

 

You can't just blame poor regressive government and incompetent economics on immigration. It's a cop out.

 

 

Net immigration ito the U.K. For 2016 was around 335,000 Australia its was around 186,000 , the U.K. Is minimal in size compared to Oz so it's not a true comparison with 3 times the population. They can't build Enough houses in the U.K. to meet the current requirements so allowing immigration at current levels just puts more strain on everything , a well thought out plan is required but I wouldn't hold my breath for any of the current MPs to come up with a credible plan.

Net immigration ito the U.K. For 2016 was around 335,000 Australia its was around 186,000 , the U.K. Is minimal in size compared to Oz so it's not a true comparison with 3 times the population. They can't build Enough houses in the U.K. to meet the current requirements so allowing immigration at current levels just puts more strain on everything , a well thought out plan is required but I wouldn't hold my breath for any of the current MPs to come up with a credible plan.

 

The scary thing is that 335,000 is a government figure based on people going through immigration and declaring - if asked, and most aren't - that they are coming to live and work. However, in the last 12 month period data is available which is March 15 to March 16, 640,000 new NI numbers were issued to EU nationals and 190,000 to none EU nationals. Then take in that many will not request an Ni, children, pensioners, none working mothers and the figur is huge.

blaming all the UK problems on immigration is a bit like Nazi Germany blaming all their problems on the Jews. Australia has twice the immigration rate that the UK has. Is it falling apart at the seams?

 

Don't get me wrong, I do believe we should have some controls on immigration. But I really don't think immigration are the sources of all our problems. Not unless you can point at those same problems in Australia. Immigration is an indication of our success and Europe's failure.

 

You can't just blame poor regressive government and incompetent economics on immigration. It's a cop out.

 

First, migration to the UK is likely over 10x that to Australia.

Second, Australia is the emptiest continent (except Antarctica) in the world.

Third, Australia has the ability to chose its migrants.

 

It it is not a matter of blaming all our ills on migration. It certainly isn't a comparison with Nazi Germany.

 

It is though a massive issue.

 

Businesses have abused it to the detriment of the local population. For example, the Clyde are currently very busy with orders for the navy building a new aircraft carrier. In years past they would have hundreds of apprentices as they would need them to replace the workforce that leave or retire. Today, there are none in the actual yard - there are about 11 in admin roles. But, instead, about half of the workforce are EU nationals. Yet Glasgow has a significant issue with youth unemployment.

I don't know what it is with these Labour governments. Once upon a time they were really good and really seemed to care about people. Now they are just out of touch, very silly and very PC. Same with Australia- useless bunch which is a pity because the Libs are pretty bad. The Labour parties concentrate on petty little nit picking things and not the big issues like health and education.

The scary thing is that 335,000 is a government figure based on people going through immigration and declaring - if asked, and most aren't - that they are coming to live and work. However, in the last 12 month period data is available which is March 15 to March 16, 640,000 new NI numbers were issued to EU nationals and 190,000 to none EU nationals. Then take in that many will not request an Ni, children, pensioners, none working mothers and the figur is huge.

 

No, 335,000 is supposed to be a net migration figure taking account of people leaving the UK. Still a very high number so there is no need to exaggerate it further.

 

For someone who has been an emigrant from the UK I am surprised that it has not occurred to you that immigration is not a one-way street. As can be deduced from this site people emigrate and then return 'home'. It is the same for many European migrants once they realise that the UK is not working out for them.

First, migration to the UK is likely over 10x that to Australia.

Second, Australia is the emptiest continent (except Antarctica) in the world.

Third, Australia has the ability to chose its migrants.

 

It it is not a matter of blaming all our ills on migration. It certainly isn't a comparison with Nazi Germany.

 

It is though a massive issue.

 

Businesses have abused it to the detriment of the local population. For example, the Clyde are currently very busy with orders for the navy building a new aircraft carrier. In years past they would have hundreds of apprentices as they would need them to replace the workforce that leave or retire. Today, there are none in the actual yard - there are about 11 in admin roles. But, instead, about half of the workforce are EU nationals. Yet Glasgow has a significant issue with youth unemployment.

 

Have you a link to substantiate these facts (not the Daily Mail)?

First, migration to the UK is likely over 10x that to Australia.

Second, Australia is the emptiest continent (except Antarctica) in the world.

Third, Australia has the ability to chose its migrants.

 

It it is not a matter of blaming all our ills on migration. It certainly isn't a comparison with Nazi Germany.

 

It is though a massive issue.

 

Businesses have abused it to the detriment of the local population. For example, the Clyde are currently very busy with orders for the navy building a new aircraft carrier. In years past they would have hundreds of apprentices as they would need them to replace the workforce that leave or retire. Today, there are none in the actual yard - there are about 11 in admin roles. But, instead, about half of the workforce are EU nationals. Yet Glasgow has a significant issue with youth unemployment.

it is a very valid comparison to Nazi Germany. I'm not talking about gassing Jews. I'm talking about blaming all their problems on the Jews. All our problems are blamed on immigration, and there are many people who feel that if we stop all immigration, all our problems will go away. If we stop immigration, then we will just be faced with all the problems that the government has been using immigration to cover up.

Of course Australia is pretty empty- vast majority of it is inhospitable desert land. Of course you could send all new migrants out there but they would be dead in a couple of weeks. It really is not helpful to compare like with unlike.

 

I don't know what it is with these Labour governments. Once upon a time they were really good and really seemed to care about people. Now they are just out of touch, very silly and very PC. Same with Australia- useless bunch which is a pity because the Libs are pretty bad. The Labour parties concentrate on petty little nit picking things and not the big issues like health and education.

nice rant, but the last labour government spent lots of money improving health and education. What they also did was involve us with wars we shouldn't be involved with, and helped trash the world economy. But this labour party is nothing like the last labour party.

 

Of course Australia is pretty empty- vast majority of it is inhospitable desert land. Of course you could send all new migrants out there but they would be dead in a couple of weeks. It really is not helpful to compare like with unlike.

agree 100%. Most people in Australia I imagine live on land equal in size to where most people live in any urban nation.

First, migration to the UK is likely over 10x that to Australia.

Second, Australia is the emptiest continent (except Antarctica) in the world.

Third, Australia has the ability to chose its migrants.

 

It it is not a matter of blaming all our ills on migration. It certainly isn't a comparison with Nazi Germany.

 

It is though a massive issue.

 

Businesses have abused it to the detriment of the local population. For example, the Clyde are currently very busy with orders for the navy building a new aircraft carrier. In years past they would have hundreds of apprentices as they would need them to replace the workforce that leave or retire. Today, there are none in the actual yard - there are about 11 in admin roles. But, instead, about half of the workforce are EU nationals. Yet Glasgow has a significant issue with youth unemployment.

net migration to new Zealand was 70,000 for a country a twentieth the size of ours.

 

Immigration is not the problem, it is the symptom. We need to address the problem.