Stay or go

I like that, Ozzie.:yes:

 

Cheers, Bobj.

Thanks Bobj! :smile:

I think there's got to be something more to life than working, paying taxes and bills and then dying.

Yes yes yes! Just take the first step (hardest) and go for it! Wish you all the best!

My dad is pretty savvy with Skype/Viber/Facetime etc. This is what helps us keep contact while he lives in Greece and me, in the UK. It'll be the the same in Australia with the advantage that our time zones will be a couple of hours closer than the UK.

 

True; my flat is rented and I'm going to vacate it in a few months anyway.

 

It's also true that what suits you won't suit others. I know fellow Greeks who have been here for as long as I have if not longer and wouldn't think of living anywhere else. But, me, I decided it's no longer for me. Dublin certainly sounds like a good place for software professionals. If I were to return to the UK I'd move to Edinburgh or Bristol; smaller towns with tech activity. However we don't know what's gonna happen with the Brexit and Ireland has expressed interest in the UK tech pie when it brexits anyway.

 

At 40 I'd say I can't count myself as 'young' anymore but, isn't it true that 40 is the new 30?

 

I'd eventually like to buy a flat while my age still allows to get a mortgage and pay it back and this could set me back by a few thousand pounds. If there's one major thing I'm giving up it's this.

 

The way I'm envisioning the move is to sell my furniture and some other expensive stuff and take a few suitcases with me so I don't think I'll need to use storage.

 

I didn't use to see it as such a stark choice until my father attempted to talk me out of it; I have a feeling he won't stop even as I'll be saying goodbye to him at the airport. He thinks I'm running away from my problems and I can have a pretty good life in Europe but if he had his own way I'd now be married with a nice Greek girl having moved a few blocks down from where I grew up. This isn't what I wanted for myself; living someone else's idea of 'real' life; it's what I was thinking when I moved to the UK. I am running away from something: the idea of the 'proper' way of living my society has. In the next few months I'll be finding myself answering the same questions defensively but that's probably his way of processing this in his mind. I think he may worry that I'll find a nice Australian lady and stay there!

 

I think there's got to be something more to life than working, paying taxes and bills and then dying.

would you aim for Melbourne? Very high Greek population, but that may or may not be what you are looking for. Do you have any distant relatives there?

I would, although I'm not sure how it stacks up against Sydney with regard to software jobs.

I have no relatives in Australia, just a couple of acquaintances I made when I traveled there as well as Australians here in London who intend to return.

I would, although I'm not sure how it stacks up against Sydney with regard to software jobs.

 

I have no relatives in Australia, just a couple of acquaintances I made when I traveled there as well as Australians here in London who intend to return.

elderberry: Good luck with everything; as we're moving past the festive season the market will pick up.

Thanks Kurt, I knew it was a bad time of year to arrive, I expect it to be quiet until Australia Day. Good thing having no ties is I'm able to apply for jobs anywhere in Australia. I wouldnt dismiss the likes of Perth and Brisbane - they may be less opportunities, but there are also less people seeking them. Melbourne (where I am at the minute) is seeing mass migration in from Perth, but that adds to the competition for rentals and jobs.

Melbourne is a big city (4m people) and has many HQ's of Australian and international companies so don't rule it out. As a gut feel, Melbourne probably has 40%, Sydney 50% and the other 10% in the other capitals (just a gut feel). HQ of 2 of the big 4 banks and 3 of the 4 large health insurers are in Melbourne as an example.

Big Greek population in Melbourne too and a reasonable sized one in Sydney. You may move to Australia and meet a nice Greek girl and settle down That would make your Dad happy. Better nightlife in Melbourne (thanks to Sydney's lockout laws)

Shorter trip from Greece to Aus, only 5 hours to Dubai, Abu Dhabi, Doha and then 11 (Perth), to 14 hours to Aus.

Let us know what you decide and how you go.

Melbourne is a big city (4m people) and has many HQ's of Australian and international companies so don't rule it out. As a gut feel, Melbourne probably has 40%, Sydney 50% and the other 10% in the other capitals (just a gut feel). HQ of 2 of the big 4 banks and 3 of the 4 large health insurers are in Melbourne as an example.

 

Big Greek population in Melbourne too and a reasonable sized one in Sydney. You may move to Australia and meet a nice Greek girl and settle down That would make your Dad happy. Better nightlife in Melbourne (thanks to Sydney's lockout laws)

 

Shorter trip from Greece to Aus, only 5 hours to Dubai, Abu Dhabi, Doha and then 11 (Perth), to 14 hours to Aus.

 

Let us know what you decide and how you go.

This is true but Melbourne also feels more like London than Perth, Brisbane or the Gold Coast. If you are looking for a change of lifestyle, not sure Melbourne or Sydney offers that. Certainly as a forty something, I appreciate the charms of less big cities. Melbourne is not the city I knew 25 years ago and boy it gets cold at times!

I moved to Melbourne almost exactly two years ago from London. My situation was similar to Kurt's, except a couple of years older (42 then, 44 now), I was working as a contractor, and I'm not Greek.

I made the move for a couple of reasons: I was in a rut, as London's property market made it increasingly difficult to think about buying a place of my own. I had a visa which I'd have lost if I had waited another month to arrive, and it would have been a waste not to use it. And my father urged me to take the opportunity.

I don't know if I'll stay long term, but I'll be apply for citizenship in 2018, so I'm planning on sticking around until then. For me, a lot hangs on what happens with Brexit, as I'd prefer to be on the Continent than in the UK, and that might get difficult in 2019. But I don't think that I'm going to be any worse off for being over here for a couple of years.

At risk of being labelled a remoaner, I think that there's also a chance that the UK could have a negative shock from Brexit. There's already talk of banks and other companies making plans to relocate.

Comparing earnings and costs at £1 to $2 (and it's around $1.70 now), I think that salaries might be slightly higher, and contract rates slightly lower. There's not a huge difference between Sydney and Melbourne.

Accommodation is a lot more in Sydney. I'd put the price of housing at a roughly similar level to London. Melbourne's about a third less, rents are maybe a bit lower again, largely because there's been a massive oversupply of apartments in the inner suburbs. Bear in mind that you'll probably need to purchase a washing machine and fridge, as most rentals don't include them.

Prices of other goods and services vary. Some are similar to the UK, others can be twice as much.

If you've got nice furniture, then it's worth shipping. A Large MoveCube is around £1100 all in, and will swallow most of the contents of a one bedroom apartment.

Well, doncha know the country has had enough of experts? :wink:

It's becoming increasingly difficult to afford a deposit to buy a place in any of the areas of London I like, but aren't properties in Melbourne and Sydney too getting out of the regular folk's reach?

At least your father urged you to go. Mine has a real problem with it and he's very disheartening. My brother, on the other hand, is like "I'd rather that you were closer but if this is what you want just go for it".

I've been thinking about the career break, as well. What exactly is this? Do you ask your employer to take an unpaid year off and have a non-binding agreement that your job may be available when you get back?

I thought it was an assured job to come back to. If you choose to stay you'd have to formally resign.

I thought it was an assured job to come back to. If you choose to stay you'd have to formally resign.

It's becoming increasingly difficult to afford a deposit to buy a place in any of the areas of London I like, but aren't properties in Melbourne and Sydney too getting out of the regular folk's reach?

 

Yep, the same applies to both cities. If you are struggling to buy in London, then you will struggle here(Melbourne and Sydney). Due to the way house buying works here, Auction market you really have no idea of what the property is actually valued at. The real estate agent will give you a rough guide, but in reality the owner will be wanting more. Auctions these days are driven by local and foreign investors with first time buyers not able to keep up and have a set price limit. Where as the investors have deeper pockets.

Two properties on my block went for 200 to 300k over the initial asking price bid.

I'm in a similar position as you, sadly however I do not have a skill on the SOL or CSOL lists so it's unlikely I'll ever be able to get a suitable visa to give me the opportunity to make a move over to Australia. If I did however (like you), I'd be on the next flight out - give it a shot, you only live once!

"I think there's got to be something more to life than working, paying taxes and bills and then dying"

Kurt, you will work, pay taxes and bills and die regardless of where you live. How you fill in the time in between is the essence of life and with whom.

I am not saying go or stay, what I am saying is consider carefully what your real reasons are for this move. My experience is that, generally, ex pats fall into two groups, ones running away from their past and the second group are out for an adventure.

i thought I was looking for an adventure in 2007 when we left for Sydney but soon understood that actually I had been bored at home with work, marriage and 3 children .. it was all work and little play.

A couple of years in Sydney, working, looking after children, juggling just 4 weeks annual leave in order to fly home to see parents was my wake-up call but I had my 'adventure' ... was it worth it ? Yes and no.

I guess if I was going to Australia to experience something different I would head to the North because that is such a contrast with London. Cairns or even Darwin or at the very least Brisbane. The Sunshine Coast? Get away from the continental style big cities of Melb and Sydney.

Brisbane also coming booming big city. To many construction, at least 100 building construction now. but no traffic jam except few high way.

It is the 3rd largest city in Australia....

I guess if I was going to Australia to experience something different I would head to the North because that is such a contrast with London. Cairns or even Darwin or at the very least Brisbane. The Sunshine Coast? Get away from the continental style big cities of Melb and Sydney.

"I think there's got to be something more to life than working, paying taxes and bills and then dying"

Kurt, you will work, pay taxes and bills and die regardless of where you live. How you fill in the time in between is the essence of life and with whom.

I am not saying go or stay, what I am saying is consider carefully what your real reasons are for this move. My experience is that, generally, ex pats fall into two groups, ones running away from their past and the second group are out for an adventure.

i thought I was looking for an adventure in 2007 when we left for Sydney but soon understood that actually I had been bored at home with work, marriage and 3 children .. it was all work and little play.

A couple of years in Sydney, working, looking after children, juggling just 4 weeks annual leave in order to fly home to see parents was my wake-up call but I had my 'adventure' ... was it worth it ? Yes and no.

 

You had a nice distraction from your problems for two years and probably some good stories to tell to your kids and grandkids. Would you have regretted staying in the UK and not going?

Who knows ... People say hindsight is a great thing. Personally I think it's something to crucify yourself with. We stayed seven years in the end. I enjoyed the first two, then downhill after that. We only went on a temporary basis. The pros were we saw some amazing places, opened our minds to a more cosmopolitan lifestyle, learned to love sushi !!, met some lovely people,

The cons were inadequate education system for our dyslexic son, shallow image obsessed culture in Sydney, healthcare system that is a money making business, eye wateringly expensive houses, grotty rentals, obsession with wealth and owning at least one rental property, mozzie bites every time I went out in the evening, every time, having to cover my skin in chemicals to stop being burnt or bitten. Freezing houses in the middle of winter.

the cost to our family has been huge, we all came back with the exception of our youngest daughter who stayed in Queensland, I miss her beyond words and feel incomplete without her here, my relationship with my own mother has deteriorated but not for obvious reasons, since our return and our marriage took a real hammering as he ended up loving it and wanting to stay and I never did. So on a good day here I say ... Yeah it was worth it, but on a bad day I wish we had never bothered leaving uk.

Thats as honest a reply as I can make it

Who knows ... People say hindsight is a great thing. Personally I think it's something to crucify yourself with. We stayed seven years in the end. I enjoyed the first two, then downhill after that. We only went on a temporary basis. The pros were we saw some amazing places, opened our minds to a more cosmopolitan lifestyle, learned to love sushi !!, met some lovely people,

The cons were inadequate education system for our dyslexic son, shallow image obsessed culture in Sydney, healthcare system that is a money making business, eye wateringly expensive houses, grotty rentals, obsession with wealth and owning at least one rental property, mozzie bites every time I went out in the evening, every time, having to cover my skin in chemicals to stop being burnt or bitten. Freezing houses in the middle of winter.

the cost to our family has been huge, we all came back with the exception of our youngest daughter who stayed in Queensland, I miss her beyond words and feel incomplete without her here, my relationship with my own mother has deteriorated but not for obvious reasons, since our return and our marriage took a real hammering as he ended up loving it and wanting to stay and I never did. So on a good day here I say ... Yeah it was worth it, but on a bad day I wish we had never bothered leaving uk.

Thats as honest a reply as I can make it

Migration is never easy. Sorry to hear of the complications.

B

go for it, when your 70 you will regret not giving it a go if you dont

Thank you all for your great responses and the additional insights you have provided!

I haven't, as of yet, made a decision. There are days I'm really keen and looking forward to going but other days I'm thinking that perhaps I should stay and get on the property ladder here, which I think it's high time I finally did. Also, more holiday destinations are readily accessible from the UK and I can also visit my hometown often to see my family. My dad is generally in good health and I'm hoping he'll be around for at least another 10 years and it would pain me to see him only 3 or 4 more times during his remaining lifespan.

On the other hand I'm single with no significant possessions in the UK and have work skills that are in demand. In that regard, I'm ideally placed to make the move and I really don't want to get older and regret not going. I'm in need of good weather which I think makes people happier, more friendly and pleasant and I can see myself making a good life for myself there. I have some reservations that at 40 I may have to start from the bottom (low-paid work and a flatshare with 5 strangers) but I think I can ride the storm until I get established.

Anyway, I'm meeting a couple of friends later this week who are both expats in London like me and when I met them a few months ago they were encouraging me to go. I'll talk to them about it again.