Sans Souci & Mosman

Hi all

This is my first post on the site. I'm planning a move from london to sydney in March 2017 with my wife, our 2yo son and as yet unborn sprog (my wife will have just started mat leave when we go). I have two job options, one of which would involve working in the CBD, the other in the south west near Campbeltown. i'm not sure which one will work out but at this stage both are realistic.

We spent a year in Sydney in 2008 and 2 weeks earlier this year on jobs visits/suburb recce so know a bit about the city, some suburbs, cost of living etc.

I'd appreciate some advice about two suburbs we're considering.

For the CBD job option we'd love to live in Mosman, the proximity to a safe beach, the views and cafes etc look great. Can anyone give any advice on the realities of living there? How it was to settle in, make friends etc? Especially anyone who has been there on mat leave and done the baby group thing? Any advice on nurseries and schools would be really useful.

For the other option we would have to live somewhere near Sans Souci/Kogarah as otherwise the commute would be too much (one of our main reasons for leaving the UK is we both spend long days at work and our son spends 10-11hours a day at nursery, we're fed up with that). We've never been to any suburbs south of Alexandria! I'd love to hear from people who've lived in Sans Souci and surrounds about the same sort of stuff i've asked above, bringing up kids there, cafes etc? What are the beaches and parks like? Is it a 'safe' suburb? Does it have mummy groups etc? Worried that once there the transport might mean we'd feel trapped there, what's it like getting north to hawkesbury river etc? Any information about what the sutherland shire is like in terms of spending family weekends there would be useful.

thanks

B

A question with so many answers ☺

I am not sure about the answers but I am moving to Sydney late March too. What I have heard is to avoid CBD in the beginning but stay somewhere in the suburbs with good public transport. Eventually you will find what suits you best and then decide for long term. With fact that you prefer to be close enough to home, I suggest you see the train/meteo map and the correlation to suburbs. As far as I heard, metro is the fastest vehicle out there specially when you are not in the CBD.

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Hi all

This is my first post on the site. I'm planning a move from london to sydney in March 2017 with my wife, our 2yo son and as yet unborn sprog (my wife will have just started mat leave when we go). I have two job options, one of which would involve working in the CBD, the other in the south west near Campbeltown. i'm not sure which one will work out but at this stage both are realistic.

We spent a year in Sydney in 2008 and 2 weeks earlier this year on jobs visits/suburb recce so know a bit about the city, some suburbs, cost of living etc.

I'd appreciate some advice about two suburbs we're considering.

For the CBD job option we'd love to live in Mosman, the proximity to a safe beach, the views and cafes etc look great. Can anyone give any advice on the realities of living there? How it was to settle in, make friends etc? Especially anyone who has been there on mat leave and done the baby group thing? Any advice on nurseries and schools would be really useful.

 

For the other option we would have to live somewhere near Sans Souci/Kogarah as otherwise the commute would be too much (one of our main reasons for leaving the UK is we both spend long days at work and our son spends 10-11hours a day at nursery, we're fed up with that). We've never been to any suburbs south of Alexandria! I'd love to hear from people who've lived in Sans Souci and surrounds about the same sort of stuff i've asked above, bringing up kids there, cafes etc? What are the beaches and parks like? Is it a 'safe' suburb? Does it have mummy groups etc? Worried that once there the transport might mean we'd feel trapped there, what's it like getting north to hawkesbury river etc? Any information about what the sutherland shire is like in terms of spending family weekends there would be useful.

thanks

B

I can't comment at all on Mosman, I've not been there. Sans Souci I've really only passed through on the way to other places, although we have stopped there a couple of times. There is a long beach on Botany Bay which is opposite to the airport, so we've stopped there to watch the planes with the kids. Most of the beaches around this area are nice, obviously the bay beaches have calmer waters than the ocean beaches so they are great for littlies. There are plenty of parks in most areas, some have small kid friendly play equipment, other parks are for bigger kids, but there is usually a good selection in each suburb. I can't help with things like mothers groups, although there are plenty in the area where I live so I would suspect the same would be true. There are Facebook groups for different areas (for example we have a local Sutherland Shire group, and then a suburb one), so you could have a look and see whether there are groups you could join and ask other mums.

I can tell you about Sutherland Shire however, having been a very happy resident of the area for almost eight years. My kids were 1 and 2 when we arrived, so I have a good idea of what is available for children/families. Sutherland Shire is very family oriented, there are loads of things to do here from fantastic beaches, loads of sporting clubs, parks and playgrounds, the National Park is on our doorstep (with fantastic beaches, walking tracks etc), there is a Westfield centre with cinema, shopping etc at Miranda, there are soft play centres, libraries which run school holiday activities etc, and just a really family-friendly feel.

Mosman is a lovely suburb - apart from the horrendous traffic on Military Road - but it's one of the most expensive in the whole of Sydney to buy into.

You might find a reasonably-priced rental but most normal people will never be able to buy there. The median price in Mosman for a 3-bed house is just under $2.5m. :err:

If you have plans to eventually buy a house, and you don't have a spare couple of million then it might be better to look to live in a slightly cheaper area.

Mosman is very wealthy. Live there if you have loads of money and can afford it. Very upper class and very white. San Souci is more multicultural, has some nicer and some rougher areas. Close to the airport and has a bit of an industrial feel in places. I think I'd prefer to live further south with a family - look at Jannali, Como, Oyster Bay etc. Even Oatley or Peakhurst. Much greener and quieter than Sans Souci.

Hi all thank you for the reply. Appreciate mosman is expensive but would have some help with employer with childcare freeing up money we now spend on that for rent. Also if we made move permanent wed be selling in London so hopefully would have something decent for a deposit. Interested to hear more about sutherland shire - does it have more of a country feel? Obviously no substitute for visiting but any websites to give an idea of what it's like would be useful. Problem with it is its further away from the M5 so longer commute.

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Move to Mosman, you'd be daft not to! It's one of Sydney's most exclusive & sought after suburbs. Lots of beautiful multi million dollar water front apartments! Nice harbour beaches, coastal walks, loads of bars, shops & restaurants. Loads of parks & stuff for kids & mums. Every bus heading into the city passes through Mosman so you'd be in the city by bus within about 15 mins. The Westfield Warringah Mall & the gateway to the never ending amount of beautiful surf beaches on the 'northern beaches' is a 15 min drive away. We know people in Campbeltown & it's a pretty rough area! Miles away from the city. I'm guessing a good hour or more commute. You'll get a heck of a lot more house for your money in the 'western suburbs'...but there's a reason! Mosman is stunning! I live 2 suburbs away & wouldn't live anywhere else.

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Thanks. Exclusive and all that is great but there are parts of London like that I'd never want to live in even if I could afford it. Need somewhere where we have a chance of making friends and feeling like we belong. Don't want to feel trapped and lonely so far away from family. Obviously nowhere can guarantee that but does that sound like mosman?

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Thanks. Exclusive and all that is great but there are parts of London like that I'd never want to live in even if I could afford it. Need somewhere where we have a chance of making friends and feeling like we belong. Don't want to feel trapped and lonely so far away from family. Obviously nowhere can guarantee that but does that sound like mosman?

 

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I think Mosman would be ideal for what you're looking for. Other good suburbs are Manly, Freshwater, Collaroy, Mona Vale..depends how far out the city you mind living. Taking traffic into consideration Mona Vale to the city would be around 45 mins. Collaroy about 35 & probably the same for Manly. They are massive family orientated suburbs with a huge community feel & the bonus of all the surf beaches. Mosman is pretty much half way between the city & the start of the northern beaches so you'd have the best of both worlds. Friends who you make through work will live all over Sydney, it's common for people to travel an hour a day to work. So socialising with them in your spare time is so difficult because they'll live so far away from you. If you're working in the CBD & you're living in Mosman the chances are you will live within a reasonable distance of friends making socialising possible, if you lived in the western suburbs you'll find most of your friends will probably live around the city & northern / eastern beaches. Sydney's a big place! We're still learning that now one year on.

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Thanks. Exclusive and all that is great but there are parts of London like that I'd never want to live in even if I could afford it. Need somewhere where we have a chance of making friends and feeling like we belong. Don't want to feel trapped and lonely so far away from family. Obviously nowhere can guarantee that but does that sound like mosman?

 

 

Mosman - rich suburb with lots of yummy mummies driving Chelsea tractors. They could film Ab Fab there easily. Is that your thing?

Sans Souci - typical Sydney suburb, quiet, not much in the way of restaurants or cafes. What made you pick it in particular?

If you're working in Campbelltown why would you pick Sans Souci? I'm guessing it's because you want the beach lifestyle? Do, please, get on Google Maps and check your commute at the times you'll actually need to travel. The M5 is a car park at peak hour - you are setting yourself up for the same commute you have now! I wouldn't pick Sans Souci anyway as there's not much there. The Bay beaches have nice calm water but they also have stingrays (there are signs at every beach telling you to shuffle your feet as you enter the water, to avoid stepping on them).

Do you need to use your car for work? If not, then for the CBD I'd suggest looking at Oatley (lovely village-style suburb, 40 minutes commute to the city on the train). I used to be a real inner-city gal and the thought of moving further away from the CBD filled me with dread, but I did enjoy Oatley and the easy commute was a pleasant surprise. If you have to drive, then look at the Northern Beaches as Aconcannon suggested - but do make sure your work is going to give you a parking spot, otherwise it will get very expensive.

A suitable beach suburb if you're working in Campbelltown is a tough one. You'll have to drive as it would be impractical to take the train all the way into town and out again. I'd be going further south than Sans Souci so you don't have to deal with city traffic.

Hi all thank you for the reply. Appreciate mosman is expensive but would have some help with employer with childcare freeing up money we now spend on that for rent. Also if we made move permanent wed be selling in London so hopefully would have something decent for a deposit. Interested to hear more about sutherland shire - does it have more of a country feel? Obviously no substitute for visiting but any websites to give an idea of what it's like would be useful. Problem with it is its further away from the M5 so longer commute.

 

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Thanks. Exclusive and all that is great but there are parts of London like that I'd never want to live in even if I could afford it. Need somewhere where we have a chance of making friends and feeling like we belong. Don't want to feel trapped and lonely so far away from family. Obviously nowhere can guarantee that but does that sound like mosman?

 

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Mosman versus Sutherlandshire or Sans Souci is really quite a strange comparison with one being known as a highly exclusive area and the other, well an affordable option for a reason! If you have the multiple millions (I personally think the $2.5m mentioned earlier is a bit light) that Mosman requires it is an absolute no brainer that you go there. The likelihood of making friends is absolutely nothing to do with the area, it is about the individual and how you make friends now. If you make friends easily now then you will whatever suburb you are in. There are people in Mosman and San Souci with friends and people in both without.

We moved from Richmond in Surrey to the lower north shore in 2005. We started off in Cremorne (Mosman's neighbour), moved to Mosman, ended up in Neutral Bay and then moved to the Northern Beaches when we decided to buy. Mosman really is lovely but very expensive as others have said. Cremorne and Neutral Bay are slightly (just slightly) cheaper and are a bit closer to the city.

We loved our time there, however it is VERY expensive to buy and in order to buy something big enough for our family we had to move. Now moving may not seem a big deal, what it has meant is the kids had to start a new school and make new friends. Easy for some - my eldest daughter was 8 and being an introvert really struggled making new friends - my youngest had no problems. The 5 years we spent fostering relationships have become null and void because inevitably you lose contact with people that are now 45 min to an hours drive away from you. I still speak occasionally on the phone but weekends become family time and tbh after a long week, days at home are really appealing!

Another thing to factor in is lifestyle of the people you are living with in your suburb. My husband has a really great salary but still we could never have the lifestyle of some of the people we were living amongst. We are talking about 16 years olds being flown on private jets to spend a weekend in New York watching a Justin Bieber concert (as a birthday celebration). We are happy now on the Beaches where everything is a little more laid back and down to earth.

If your heart is set on living there, Cremorne and Neutral Bay are great. They have really great schools, lots of restaurants, cafe's, supermarkets and you would be in the city under 20 mins by bus.

We loved our time there, however it is VERY expensive to buy and in order to buy something big enough for our family we had to move. Now moving may not seem a big deal, what it has meant is the kids had to start a new school and make new friends. Easy for some - my eldest daughter was 8 and being an introvert really struggled making new friends - my youngest had no problems. The 5 years we spent fostering relationships have become null and void because inevitably you lose contact with people that are now 45 min to an hours drive away from you.

 

That is so true. It's tempting to rent in the inner suburbs because when you're renting you can afford it, but you will lose all your friends when you move - it'll be like migrating all over again. Sydney is a big city but mentally, people live in a series of villages. I lived in Sydney for 30 years and moved about a fair bit. When I moved to the North Shore, almost none of my Eastern Suburbs friends would visit me, over the bridge is seen as too far. When I moved to the Inner West, ditto. When I moved to Oatley, not one of those friends ever came to visit, even for a daytime barbie. We stlil kept in touch but no one would travel. The same applies to children in spades.

So my advice would be, start out roughly where you plan to continue, and for most people that will be further out in the suburbs. Of course you may get it wrong, but at least you're giving yourself a chance to get it right.

Correction - I originally said that if you take the Campbelltown job and want to live near the beach, then you'd need to go further south because commuting via the M5 would be a nightmare.

I still think the M5 is best avoided, but I'd forgotten that there aren't any other roads that go across from the coast to Campbelltown until you get to Thirlmere!

If your heart yearns for the country, then I would consider looking around Thirlmere/Austinmer, beautiful idyllic coastline, no idea about schools etc but worth looking at. The commute by car would be shorter than from Sans Souci in peak hour by quite a bit.

Hi Baggo,

Mosman and Sans Souci are dramatically different. Here's my very personal view:

I think the Sans Souci area is quite scruffy, and not in an interesting edgy sort of way, more in a bit of a drab sort of way. The beach at Brighton Le sands is not that great (flat water, view of the airport), certainly nothing like Balmoral at Mosman, which is the sort of beach you'd take overseas visitors to. Kogarah and Mosman are both quite bustling with all the infrastructure you'd want close by, but Mosman is very white and up market, whereas Kogarah is a lot more affordable and multicultural.

There are thriving Mummy groups all over Sydney, and the Mummies at Mosman are of the Yummy variety.

If money is no object, and you've got a house in London to sell, well, why not Mosman or Balmoral? I lived in both Neutral Bay and Cammeray a long, long time ago. If it's to be the job in the CBD and you want to live by a beach which is good for kids, well you consider Clovelly or Bronte.

If it's to be the job in Campbelltown, well you consider living out that way, Camden perhaps, somewhere that I've always liked with its mixture of country town and suburb. You could get somewhere nice with a pool and you wouldn't miss the beach. My brother has been living out in Mt Annan for the last couple of years and he seems to have settled into that area. He used to live at Picnic Point which is not such a bad area either, halfway between the city and Campbelltown. It's 60km from Surry Hills where I live to Mount Annan, something to avoid in the peak hour but if you are living somewhere on the City side of the M5 then you will be avoiding most of the peak traffic.

Wherever you choose try and make sure it's got a station not too far away and/or good bus services.

It's very true that different parts of Sydney are totally different. We lived in a couple of different places and I've worked around the city a bit, loads of different places and different people. It's really subjective.

Avoid the suburbs with nothing to do... you'll wonder why you moved there. None of this place makes a ton of sense financially. I don't think that's why people move here. You should try and get somewhere with people you could get on with, and a place that has things to do when you are not in work. Dare I say it, somewhere with more poms will probably work well!

Probably not great answers, and others might disagree too, as they often do on here (everyone has an opinion! - everyone is different) - so that's my 2p worth. Mosman is very nice, and Balmoral is a lovely place. It's a bit poncey and snooty but I always enjoy it there. I think I'd rather be there than Sans Souci.

Other than that, it's hardly any distance from Sans Souci to Cronulla and the Shire. It looks like it is on Google maps, but it takes no time in the car, or the train. So if you do go down that way there's no real need to be in Sans Souci - lots of nice parts down there, Bundeena, the National Park etc

Also - if you like the idea of Mosman, there's lots of nice parts to the north and East of there. The lower Northern beaches etc