Qualified Scottish Solicitor - Skills Assessment and Visa Questions

Hi,

I am currently a trainee solicitor in Scotland due to qualify in August 2017.

I am hoping to emigrate in December 2019, but I see solicitors are on the flagged list to be removed which is slightly concerning.

I understand that I require to obtain a skills assessment at which point I will most likely require to undertake additional modules. I have a few questions re the skills assessment and visa:-

• As I am not looking to move until 2019, when should I apply for a skills assessment?
  
• Can these modules be done via distance learning and exams taken in the UK?
  
• In terms of applying for my visa, when should I begin the process?
  
• Do I need to be two years post qualified before I can apply for a visa?
  

As solicitors are on the flagged list, does this mean that it is likely to be taken off in the next year or 3 years?

Many thanks in advance for any advice.

Hi,

 

I am currently a trainee solicitor in Scotland due to qualify in August 2017.

 

I am hoping to emigrate in December 2019, but I see solicitors are on the flagged list to be removed which is slightly concerning.

 

I understand that I require to obtain a skills assessment at which point I will most likely require to undertake additional modules. I have a few questions re the skills assessment and visa:-

 

 

 

• As I am not looking to move until 2019, when should I apply for a skills assessment?

• Can these modules be done via distance learning and exams taken in the UK?

• In terms of applying for my visa, when should I begin the process?

• Do I need to be two years post qualified before I can apply for a visa?

 

 

As solicitors are on the flagged list, does this mean that it is likely to be taken off in the next year or 3 years?

 

Many thanks in advance for any advice.

You are in a minefield - constructed by solicitors and politicians.

From a RMA who is also a solicitor:

In particular, the situation when a solicitor has been admitted to practice over 3 years ago. As evidence of admission to practice as a lawyer in the relevant State/Territory is a suitable skills assessment for GSM, I queried whether a solicitor admitted over 3 years ago satisfies subclause 189.212(1).

The response I have received from the Independent Skilled Mailbox (see below) is that a solicitor admitted over 3 years ago would not satisfy subclause 189.212(1).

My query, then, is how can experienced solicitors admitted more than 3 years ago be eligible for a s/c 189 visa?

Copies of the DIBP’s email to me, as well as my response, are below. I am awaiting further response from the DIBP.

Hello xxx

My apologies for the delayed response time. We have been in consultation regarding your enquiry, which has highlighted the need to discuss this matter with the relevant government agency for skills assessment.

Although consultation on skills assessment requirements is occurring, and may take some time, I wanted to let you know that at the time of invitation the relevant assessing authority must have assessed the Applicants skills as being suitable for the applicant’s nominated skilled occupation.

Further, where there is no expiry date on a relevant skills assessment then the expiry date is taken to be valid for 3 years from the date of assessment. Based on the information you provided, in this instance the Applicant’s admission as a lawyer in 1999 (admission certificate issued in 1999) would not satisfy subclause 189.212(1).

I hope this is of assistance/clarifies.

Kind regards

XXXX

Independent Skilled Mailbox

Department of Immigration and Border Protection

************************************************************************************************

My response to XXX

Dear XXX

Thank you for your email.

A lawyer can only be admitted to practice once. At that time, the person becomes a lawyer. It is not possible to obtain a renewal of admission.

It seems strange that lawyers who were admitted more than 3 years ago cannot satisfy subclause 189.212(1), particularly as lawyers gain additional points on the points test for the more work.

********************************************************************************************************************************

Apart from the misplaced modifier, it looks about right to me.

There are several threads dealing with all of these issues. I suggest you use the search facility at the top right corner and look for "solicitor". You should find the answers you need there - it is not a rosy picture I'm afraid.

Hi,

Many thanks for your reply and the information you have provided. Are you able to comment on any of my other questions at all? Do you know anything about the flagged occupation list by any chance?

Thanks again.

Hi,

I have had a look tonight. In respect to distance learning, I understand that this is possible and reference is made to sitting exams at the College of London. Does anyone know if it is possible to sit the exams at a university in Scotland?

I have also read that visas take around 12 months to process, but I am unsure if you can begin the process without having had two years post qualified experience. I couldn't find any information on the threads that I found. I would be grateful if anyone is able to advise.

I haven't seen much information on solicitors being on the flagged list. I see that they were on the 2015-2016 list and 2016-2017 list. Do people expect this occupation to be removed soon?

Thanks in advance for any advice.

I've merged some posts over from a duplicate thread in News and Chat. If the context or conversationorder seems out, this is why.

@lem No need to double post threads, just one is enough

No problem, thanks.

No problem, thanks.

Solicitors will probably remain on the list at least for the remainder of this financial year - until 30 June 2017.

If an occupation is removed from the list before a visa application is lodged - bad luck - lodged applications are not affected.

If there is no other way of dealing with pesky applicants, the minister can always trot out Section 39 and deem that they have not made an application, in which case the visa application charge is refunded; eventually.

My advice to those to prospective applicants who have one of the 50 or so occupations currently 'flagged' is to apply ASAP.

Solicitors will probably remain on the list at least for the remainder of this financial year - until 30 June 2017.

 

If an occupation is removed from the list before a visa application is lodged - bad luck - lodged applications are not affected.

 

If there is no other way of dealing with pesky applicants, the minister can always trot out Section 39 and deem that they have not made an application, in which case the visa application charge is refunded; eventually.

 

My advice to those to prospective applicants who have one of the 50 or so occupations currently 'flagged' is to apply ASAP.

Hi WRussel,

Thanks again for your detailed response.

I have read that in order to meet the work experience requirement, you need to have been employed in an occupation on the SOL list for 12 of the 24 months before you can actually apply for a visa. I have also read that the occupation can be a closely related occupation. Is this right? It would mean that I am eligible to apply for a visa now as I have been a trainee solicitor for nearly 13 months. However, I haven't yet had a skills assessment, undertaken additional modules and been admitted as a solicitor in Australia. I take it I need to do this first before applying for a visa?

Thanks.

You need to apply to the law society in the state you wish to be admitted to, they will assess your skills and decide what modules you need to take to be the equivalent of a lawyer in Australia.

As as a trainee or NQ you will struggle. As a minimum you will have to study the following

professional responsibility

trusts and accounts

australian constitutional law

all of these can be studied

in line from uk.

As as a trainee you will not be able to rely on experience for some of the modules and if you got a grade of c or less then you will have to take the equivalent subject.

Once you you have done these subjects then you have to apply to be admitted and attend the ceremony in the state you applied to. Once you are admitted you can apply for a visa.

You need to apply to the law society in the state you wish to be admitted to, they will assess your skills and decide what modules you need to take to be the equivalent of a lawyer in Australia.

 

As as a trainee or NQ you will struggle. As a minimum you will have to study the following

professional responsibility

trusts and accounts

australian constitutional law

 

all of these can be studied

in line from uk.

 

As as a trainee you will not be able to rely on experience for some of the modules and if you got a grade of c or less then you will have to take the equivalent subject.

 

Once you you have done these subjects then you have to apply to be admitted and attend the ceremony in the state you applied to. Once you are admitted you can apply for a visa.

Thanks for the info Racmac.

My plan is to emigrate in December 2019 when I will be two years post qualified as opposed to going over freshly qualified. Due to the solicitor occupation being on the flagged list for removal I was thinking of applying for a skills assessment in the next few months, undertake the necessary modules and apply for admission. From the other threads I have read on here, some have had to undertake 6 additional modules which would take a year to complete as you can only study a maximum of 3 per semester. Therefore I estimate a year to complete the additional modules. Hopefully the solicitor occupation will remain on the list the next year or two so that I can apply for my visa say September - December 2017. I am not too how long the visa process takes - I have read around 12 months which would take me to September - December 2018 if this is granted. I would then hope to emigrate in December 2019.

I am not sure if there is a time limit between having your visa granted and moving out as I wouldn't be looking to move out for around 12 months after my visa is granted. I will need to look into this more to see if this is possible.

Thanks for the info Racmac.

 

My plan is to emigrate in December 2019 when I will be two years post qualified as opposed to going over freshly qualified. Due to the solicitor occupation being on the flagged list for removal I was thinking of applying for a skills assessment in the next few months, undertake the necessary modules and apply for admission. From the other threads I have read on here, some have had to undertake 6 additional modules which would take a year to complete as you can only study a maximum of 3 per semester. Therefore I estimate a year to complete the additional modules. Hopefully the solicitor occupation will remain on the list the next year or two so that I can apply for my visa say September - December 2017. I am not too how long the visa process takes - I have read around 12 months which would take me to September - December 2018 if this is granted. I would then hope to emigrate in December 2019.

 

I am not sure if there is a time limit between having your visa granted and moving out as I wouldn't be looking to move out for around 12 months after my visa is granted. I will need to look into this more to see if this is possible.

Well the minimum subjects I mentioned above - the constitutional law ran from Feb to June and The other 2 you studied at your own time but they suggest 8 weeks each.

when you get skills assessed it takes about 2 months but I fear even f you apply with 2 years qualification you will have to do lots subjects. I have heard lots of stories of people doing 6/7 subjects. If you factor in the time and cost plus the risk that the occupation could be removed id be concerned. If you are working full time you will not be able to manage 3 modules a semester. I struggled with 1 subject, it was intense.

I I think you have 4 years from grant of visa to move to oz. Good luck anyway.

Well the minimum subjects I mentioned above - the constitutional law ran from Feb to June and The other 2 you studied at your own time but they suggest 8 weeks each.

 

when you get skills assessed it takes about 2 months but I fear even f you apply with 2 years qualification you will have to do lots subjects. I have heard lots of stories of people doing 6/7 subjects. If you factor in the time and cost plus the risk that the occupation could be removed id be concerned. If you are working full time you will not be able to manage 3 modules a semester. I struggled with 1 subject, it was intense.

 

I I think you have 4 years from grant of visa to move to oz. Good luck anyway.

Thanks for the advice @Racmac. Have you emigrated to Australia now or are you still in the process?

I was having a looking at university costs of the single modules. I am looking to go to Victoria, but I am open minded to other areas. Deakin University details costs of around $3,293 per law module for foreign students which seems quite high, I am not sure if the price is different if you are studying long distance? Would you happen to know? Other threads on here from earlier this year suggest $2,300 per module, but I guess it probably differs from each state and university.

I know it's a complete uphill struggle, but I do feel very determined. It may come to nothing and I will have wasted time, money and effort but I know I would regret it if I didn't at least give it a try.

Thanks for the info Racmac.

 

My plan is to emigrate in December 2019 when I will be two years post qualified as opposed to going over freshly qualified. Due to the solicitor occupation being on the flagged list for removal I was thinking of applying for a skills assessment in the next few months, undertake the necessary modules and apply for admission. From the other threads I have read on here, some have had to undertake 6 additional modules which would take a year to complete as you can only study a maximum of 3 per semester. Therefore I estimate a year to complete the additional modules. Hopefully the solicitor occupation will remain on the list the next year or two so that I can apply for my visa say September - December 2017. I am not too how long the visa process takes - I have read around 12 months which would take me to September - December 2018 if this is granted. I would then hope to emigrate in December 2019.

 

I am not sure if there is a time limit between having your visa granted and moving out as I wouldn't be looking to move out for around 12 months after my visa is granted. I will need to look into this more to see if this is possible.

Once your visa is granted you usually have around 10 months in which to validate it -ie visit Australia. Its usually 12 months from the date of your medical or police check, whichever was the earlier.

You have 5 years from the date of the visa grant in whch to make the permanent move.

Thanks @Nemesis for the info, that's great.

For those of you who have undertaken the additional modules - what university did you decide to go with? Would you recommend them?

For those of you who have undertaken the additional modules - what university did you decide to go with? Would you recommend them?

Hi Lem - pasted below are a couple of links you may find useful in working out how many subjects you'd need to study to be eligible for admission in Victoria / other states. I've not been through the process myself, but did investigate the requirements for a solicitor qualified and admitted in Scotland...approx 5/6 subjects plus 2 practical skills subjects (all of which can be studied online via the University of New England & College of Law (Australian version, not the English one)). Cheapest option was through those institutions at approx $11/12,000 (whereas universities in Victoria were between $15-20k). Hope that helps.

http://www.lawadmissions.vic.gov.au/home/overseas+applicants/uniform+principles+for+assessing+overseas+qualifications+pdf

http://www.lawadmissions.vic.gov.au/home/overseas+applicants/information+for+qualified+overseas+applicants/

Hi Lem - pasted below are a couple of links you may find useful in working out how many subjects you'd need to study to be eligible for admission in Victoria / other states. I've not been through the process myself, but did investigate the requirements for a solicitor qualified and admitted in Scotland...approx 5/6 subjects plus 2 practical skills subjects (all of which can be studied online via the University of New England & College of Law (Australian version, not the English one)). Cheapest option was through those institutions at approx $11/12,000 (whereas universities in Victoria were between $15-20k). Hope that helps.

 

http://www.lawadmissions.vic.gov.au/home/overseas+applicants/uniform+principles+for+assessing+overseas+qualifications+pdf

 

http://www.lawadmissions.vic.gov.au/home/overseas+applicants/information+for+qualified+overseas+applicants/

Hi Marlou, thanks for all the info and the links, that's really helpful. I have been on the Legal Admissions website for Victoria and read everything over during the weekend. I looked into Deakin University to undertake the additional units; however, it will costs $3,900 per unit. The Legal Admissions Board of Victoria forwarded on a PDF of the institutions that they will accept the units from. I thought I would have to undertake the units at a university within Victoria but the institutions they accept are across Australia. I have made enquiries to Queensland University of Technology and Maquire University about cost of units etc - just waiting to hear back.

Do you know what states will accept qualifications from the University of New England and College of Law? Have you decided not to emigrate?

From the research I have done so far, I thought as much re having to take 5/6 subjects and 2 practical modules. I heard that cross qualifying in England reduces the number of additional units you need to do; however I'm not sure how reliable this is. It costs £4,000 to do the conversion course for England so don't think I would be saving much.

Hi Lem

I only looked into Victoria's requirements and they accept the two institutions I mentioned. The VLAB website has a list of the universities they accept credits from (suspect this is what you were sent): http://www.lawadmissions.vic.gov.au/home/admission+requirements/australian+approved+academic+institutions

Good luck with your research!

Hi Lem

I only looked into Victoria's requirements and they accept the two institutions I mentioned. The VLAB website has a list of the universities they accept credits from (suspect this is what you were sent): http://www.lawadmissions.vic.gov.au/home/admission+requirements/australian+approved+academic+institutions

 

Good luck with your research!

Yeah that was the same one that was sent to me. I have only just noticed UNE on there. Thanks for all your help!

http://www.pomsinoz.com/forum/migration-issues/211160-solicitor-applying-visa-189-skills-assessment.html

have you read this thread, lots of info on here that should answer all your questions.

WA told me what universities offered the courses in WA but only 1 of them did online and the other was over 2 modules and was very expensive.

I asked the board if could study elsewhere and provided my reasons and they approved UNE which are very geared up to online study.

http://www.pomsinoz.com/forum/migration-issues/211160-solicitor-applying-visa-189-skills-assessment.html

 

have you read this thread, lots of info on here that should answer all your questions.

WA told me what universities offered the courses in WA but only 1 of them did online and the other was over 2 modules and was very expensive.

I asked the board if could study elsewhere and provided my reasons and they approved UNE which are very geared up to online study.

Yeah, I have read that thread and most of my questions have been answered now, thanks. I have looked at UNE and I think I will go there, I have sent them an email so hopefully they will get back to me shortly.

I have also looked at this thread:-

http://www.pomsinoz.com/forum/jobs-careers/201510-trainee-solicitor-question-2.html

One of the posters was planning on moving back to the UK due to her partner not being able to secure work as a solicitor. Do you know what opportunities there might be for a family law/court solicitor like me? As I said previously, I will have completed my traineeship and have two years post qualification experience before emigrating. I also have 2 years experience work in a legal secretary role. I have completed legal work experience, volunteered for Witness Support Scotland and have worked as a precognition agent. I am looking to emigrate to Victoria, but open minded about location.

Hi Lem

I am usually very positive about people looking into relocation. However I suggest that you think v carefully before you spend all that money. Australia is swamped with lawyers. I work in government and half the people here are studying to become lawyers. Unless you have something that you will set you apart from the local graduates I think that you could struggle. Alternatively you may be just using your skills as a way to get the visa. If you want a long term career in law you are probably better staying put. I am also worried about you paying all tjis money and then you don't get your application in before it comes off the list.

If I can offer any more constructive advice do get in touch and don't want to stamp out your enthusiasm.

Hi Lem

I am usually very positive about people looking into relocation. However I suggest that you think v carefully before you spend all that money. Australia is swamped with lawyers. I work in government and half the people here are studying to become lawyers. Unless you have something that you will set you apart from the local graduates I think that you could struggle. Alternatively you may be just using your skills as a way to get the visa. If you want a long term career in law you are probably better staying put. I am also worried about you paying all tjis money and then you don't get your application in before it comes off the list.

If I can offer any more constructive advice do get in touch and don't want to stamp out your enthusiasm.

Hi Peachy, thanks for your response. I have sent you a PM.