coming to Sydney - Where to start?

Hi everyone, love the forum, now looking for a bit of advice.

I've been offered a sponsored role with a geotech contractor on a 457 visa. It's a permanent, salaried position and on the face of it appears a good opportunity.

However, my main concern is will we maintain (or hopefully improve) our UK standard of living? As others have mentioned Sydney can be v.expensive I worry that salary offered is on the low side? We're a family of 3 (wife and 8yr old). Reasonably aware of main expenses (rent, school fees, grocery shopping). Offer is in region of $140k & relocation fees paid to value of $12k plus a few a few other perks.

We don't have an extravagant lifestyle in Uk, though have a nice 4bed house in good area, and live comfortably at present.

We like the look of Bella Vista as well as the 'Shire' and anticipate rent in the $800-1000/wk range.

All thoughts (positive and negative) welcome.

Stand by for lots of people jumping in to tell you that the 457 visa is temporary for 4 years, not permanent.

Relocation expenses of $12 won't go far if that is for flights, belongings, establishing permanent accommodation (rent and bond) etc.

Maintain your standard of living? Depends on a lot of things, but assuming you are from Falkirk.......... moving to Sydney......... I know where i'd rather be. Sorry about 1997 and all that! :wink: I actually drove the Killie open-top bus!

Hi everyone, love the forum, now looking for a bit of advice.

 

I've been offered a sponsored role with a geotech contractor on a 457 visa. It's a permanent, salaried position and on the face of it appears a good opportunity.

 

However, my main concern is will we maintain (or hopefully improve) our UK standard of living? As others have mentioned Sydney can be v.expensive I worry that salary offered is on the low side? We're a family of 3 (wife and 8yr old). Reasonably aware of main expenses (rent, school fees, grocery shopping). Offer is in region of $140k & relocation fees paid to value of $12k plus a few a few other perks.

 

We don't have an extravagant lifestyle in Uk, though have a nice 4bed house in good area, and live comfortably at present.

 

We like the look of Bella Vista as well as the 'Shire' and anticipate rent in the $800-1000/wk range.

 

All thoughts (positive and negative) welcome.

You haven't said anything about your current standard of living so it is really impossible to take a punt as to whether you might improve it or not! If you can tell us where in UK you live and current salary then that can be used as a decent yardstick.

The salary is ok, nothing flash for Sydney but plenty of people would be living on that kind of sum. Your weekly take home pay will be either $1,900 or $1,700 depending on whether that includes super or not - spending $1,000 on rent is a large proportion of that so Yu might want to stick to the lower end of your price range which should be manageable in the locations you mentioned.

Firstly congrats on the job offer and sponsorship

$140K is a pretty good salary for Australia, around double the average of Australia. Will your company also provide you with private healthcare, as anything decent can work out expensive if you have to pay for it yourself. And if you are over 30, if you do not have it you will pay extra in your taxes.

As for Sydney, I cannot truly comment as I live in Melbourne. But rentals in Sydney are crazy prices. Based on what you have quoted, from what I understand will take up nearly half your pay. Cost of living expense's are quite high here, grocery shopping can be pretty expensive compared to the UK. I personally do not think you will struggle, your child is off school age and so you can avoid the child care expense's, high. Are you and your family looking at this as a permanent move? I think value for money you should be able to find that properties give you more room, albeit the quality is not as good.

Looking at Google maps, you are looking at living quite a bit out of Sydney. Not sure where your office is, but if in the CBD this could be a bit of a commute.

Going by your username, if you are based in Falkirk, Scotland. Do be shocked at the massive jump in cost of living expense's. My parent's are around 15 minutes from Falkirk.

If you are coming from Scotland, do you already own a property and as the equity you have, you may struggle with the housing market in Sydney, again ridiculously expensive and not helped by the way the auction market works. I suspect you may find it hard to find a nice 4 bed house in Sydney, but I may be wrong.

Will you maintain or improve your standard of living, that all really depends on which part of the UK you are moving from. With the weather and standard of living here, I suspect you would but times are changing here in Australia.

Coming from Falkirk, I'd say you'll be in for a shock, definitely! The cost of living isn't that different between the UK and Australia except for housing - but in Sydney, the difference in the cost of housing is simply enormous. So do make sure you research housing very thoroughly, and do take the pictures on realestate.com.au and domain.com.au with a very large pinch of salt!

Bella Vista and the Shire are two very different places. Have you visited before or how did you come to settle on those two areas? Where will you be working?The other shock you'll be in for is the commute: it may have a smaller population than London but it sprawls over a huge area, so the commute times can be as bad.

You don't say where the job will be based, but obviously that will have a bearing on where you will want to live. $140k is an okay salary, you don't say if that includes superannuation but that would take a chunk off your take home pay if it does. As you know, you will have to pay school fees for your 8 year old, but there are other school expenses to factor in such as the 'voluntary contribution' (which I don't think is actually voluntary), uniform, excursions etc which can add up a fair bit. Then there are extracurricular things. For example, my eldest is in the school band and we pay $120 per term for her lessons plus $250 per year for band camp. Swimming lessons are about $190 per term, gymnastics and things like that would be similar. Those things obviously depend on what interests your child has, but they sure do add up!

It is quite difficult to say whether you will have a better standard of living. It will depend a bit on how far you are willing to commute, how often you like to go out or on holiday, whether your wife will work and so on. As the others have mentioned, accommodation will be a big chunk of your expenses. In some areas your budget will get you a four bed house, in others it wouldn't. I live in Sutherland Shire, and know that the closer to the ocean/rivers you get the higher the prices. However, away from those areas prices can be okay (although increasing all the time). Again the location will depend on what you want. We are happy to live away from the beach because after the first short while the novelty wore off for us. We prefer to live surrounded by national park, but within a 30 minute drive of the sea. Others want to live right at the beach, but obviously that comes at a premium.

Sutherland Shire is a nice area, family friendly with good schools and amenities, but it wouldn't suit everyone. Some people see it as a bit bogan/a bit of a backwater, but we've been happy here. I can't comment on Bella Vista.

I always advise people to make up a big spreadsheet with realistic figures for expenses. That should help you see what you have to pay for essentials/living costs and then work out whether you have enough left for the lifestyle stuff.

Also, think about what your more long-term goal is. As I'm sure you're aware, the 457 isn't permanent, so if you think there might be a chance you will want to stay in Sydney you will need to plan for that.

Additional to salary is medical insurance, super, company car, 2 months rent upon arrival. We have just returned from a week long visit, so a bit whistle stop whilst trying to get a feel for company and surrounding area. Office is in Mascot. I realise 457 is effectively a temp visa, at present difficult to say if move will be permanent, but looking at 2yrs min. After which we'd reassess and consider visa change if it all works out well.

Thanks for the comments so far, keep them coming

Okay, that's not too bad a package then, with those things on top. I would think that commuting from Sutherland Shire would be easier and quicker than from Bella Vista. We are in the Engadine area and it would take us maybe 40 minutes to an hour to get to the airport from here, depending on traffic. It would be quicker from the eastern parts of the shire, Miranda and over, but then housing is a bit more expensive. I suppose it boils down to balancing the commute with the costs. OH's commute is about 50 minutes to Hurstville (by bike and train), but he doesn't mind that because of the benefits of living in the area that we do. Some people don't mind a 2 hour commute, others balk at 20 minutes.

Before we moved out here I used google to route plan how far out from work we could get in certain commute times. I think you can actually input time of day now, so you can get an idea of how long a journey takes in rush hour, for example.

Funnily enough, we're going to be in Falkirk in about four weeks, using it as a stop (to see the Falkirk Wheel and the Kelpies) on our way up to the Highlands on holiday

Office is in Mascot. I realise 457 is effectively a temp visa, at present difficult to say if move will be permanent, but looking at 2yrs min. After which we'd reassess and consider visa change if it all works out well.

 

 

Don't choose Bella Vista if your office is in Mascot! You'll spend half your life commuting. Sutherland Shire or the St George area are definitely the places to look at. Look at the stations along the Illawarra line starting at Mortdale and going south.

If you have to drive to work, then try out the commuting times on Google Maps by entering peak hour times and dates and see what times you get. I could drive from Oatley to Mascot in 20 minutes in the late evening, but it has taken me over two hours in peak time.

Considering those other perks are on top of salary, I'd say you should be fine.

Hi Falkirk Bairn,

You may enjoy living on the Sutherland Shire more than Bella Vista. The Sutherland Shire is surrounded by beautiful beaches. It has a relaxed culture. Bella Vista residents experience a bit of crime (mainly break and enters) and the public transport isn't as good. You'll get a very comfortable 4 bedroom house in the Sutherland Shire for $1000 per week. I wouldn't worry about the cost of living - $140,000 is a good salary.

Good luck!

140k is a very good salary in Sydney, never mind the rest of Oz.

Coming from Falkirk, I'd say you'll be in for a shock, definitely! The cost of living isn't that different between the UK and Australia except for housing - but in Sydney, the difference in the cost of housing is simply enormous. So do make sure you research housing very thoroughly, and do take the pictures on realestate.com.au and domain.com.au with a very large pinch of salt!

 

Bella Vista and the Shire are two very different places. Have you visited before or how did you come to settle on those two areas? Where will you be working?The other shock you'll be in for is the commute: it may have a smaller population than London but it sprawls over a huge area, so the commute times can be as bad.

Returning to Australia June 2016 Are you back in Australia now, Marisa?

I Googled Bella Vista though I had a vague idea where it is - 7 Hills, Baulkham Hills, Kellyville. Not a bad place to live if you have a job there, say at Norwest Business Park.

I started work again at the end of June after 20 months of bludging or practising for retirement. I work in Parramatta and I can leave home at 4pm and get the 4.10 Schofields train which gets to Parra at about 4.35 leaving me a few minutes to shop for food and coffee in Westfield before starting work at 5pm. I finish at 10pm and I'm back at the station for the 1016 back to Central arriving about 1055. The trains are punctual too. Commuting like this is pretty good though the train out to Parra is sometimes crowded.

I would hate to drive to Parra at this time though it would be OK at 10pm. A friend told me his stepmother sold her house in Kellyville for just under $1,000,000 a couple of days after it went on the market.

My advice is to try to live as close to work as possible, but if you can't, live on a rail line, or at least a bus line.

Thanks again for the advice. In final negotiations with employer. Found a few properties that would be of interest in the shire and surrounding areas, so feeling really positive. LKC, if you haven't saw the kelpies first hand yet, you'll love it. The Helix (the newly built park) that houses them is a great addition to the area!

Good luck...not a huge amount to add, but there is a LOT of work in geotech in Sydney now and even more coming up over the next 10-15 years with all the road and rail building and development that is going on. So your skills will be in demand, I would not worry too much about job security

Agree that Bella Vista - Mascot will be a crap commute and you're better off looking south. Although with a contractor I'd say there is a fair chance you will be working all over

I am in the construction industry myself (rail sector Project/Technical Director) and we have a very good short-medium term future in Sydney. There is an even higher demand for geotechs here than in the UK as most contract forms and engineering standards require a much higher level of geotechnical inspection and certification

Additional to salary is medical insurance, super, company car, 2 months rent upon arrival. We have just returned from a week long visit, so a bit whistle stop whilst trying to get a feel for company and surrounding area. Office is in Mascot. I realise 457 is effectively a temp visa, at present difficult to say if move will be permanent, but looking at 2yrs min. After which we'd reassess and consider visa change if it all works out well.

 

Thanks for the comments so far, keep them coming ?

I didn't realize it - the job - is in Mascot. In that case, why not look around there. It's not just airport and industry. There are plenty of residential areas. I'm pretty sure the night manager at the Strawberry Hills hotel (my local(s)) lives there so I'll ask him about it. I'm not sure if you have to worry about being under the flight path. I was at Leichhardt yesterday (one of my fave suburbs) for an appointment and I heard and saw a few flights going over.

On Saturday I drove from my home in Surry Hills (on Elizabeth Street) to the Westfield shopping complex at Eastgardens - loathsome carpark packed to the brim and after five fruitless minutes looking for a space I went out on the road - Bunnerong - I think and parked five minutes walk from the place. The shopping centre is nice enough but the carpark, like all Westfields, is awful. I've "lost" my car in a couple of them, remember once in Penrith thinking I'd have to wait till night time and find it on the basis that it was the only car left.

It would have made more sense to walk to Central and get the train one stop to Town Hall. I wanted to check out mobile phone deals. (Has anyone gone for the EPL Optus package? I changed my mind about it after reading about poor reviews.) Since I started my job I've been in my car no more than three times in as many months and I wanted to take it for a run.

Anyway, sorry for the waffling, but I turned left on the way home, Pagewood Road perhaps, and followed a winding road all the way to the road thru Mascot where I turned right and went thru both Mascot and Botany both of which look OK. There seem to be a few relatively quiet residential streets free of industry and/or appartments.

I should be spruiking the advantages of Surry Hills! The only disadvantage is not having a garden if you are in a terrace house but you can walk to the parks, in fact walk nearly everywhere, city on the door step, beaches 7 km away.

Time for my coffee in the cafe outside my unit, another advantage of the inner city.

Good luck...not a huge amount to add, but there is a LOT of work in geotech in Sydney now and even more coming up over the next 10-15 years with all the road and rail building and development that is going on. So your skills will be in demand, I would not worry too much about job security

 

Agree that Bella Vista - Mascot will be a crap commute and you're better off looking south. Although with a contractor I'd say there is a fair chance you will be working all over

 

I am in the construction industry myself (rail sector Project/Technical Director) and we have a very good short-medium term future in Sydney. There is an even higher demand for geotechs here than in the UK as most contract forms and engineering standards require a much higher level of geotechnical inspection and certification

That's good to know about the geotechnical prospects in and around Sydney. International press appear to only report on "paper selling" headlines with infrequent on the ground reports making it a bit skewed one way or the other. I might need to give you a shout if it all goes a bit pear shaped with this company though .

On a professional note, I'm a chartered engineer (ICE) with professional grade registration with UK RoGEP. Can you advise how easily this can be transferred to Engineers Australia registration?

Thanks again for the advice. In final negotiations with employer. Found a few properties that would be of interest in the shire and surrounding areas, so feeling really positive. LKC, if you haven't saw the kelpies first hand yet, you'll love it. The Helix (the newly built park) that houses them is a great addition to the area!

We've never seen the Kelpies. In fact, the kids have never been to Scotland and I've only been to Glasgow to sit a couple of exams (in 2001, so not recent). Only OH has been. We're going to the Falkirk wheel too. Eldest daughter loves science/engineering stuff, so she will be in heaven, I think!

That's good to know about the geotechnical prospects in and around Sydney. International press appear to only report on "paper selling" headlines with infrequent on the ground reports making it a bit skewed one way or the other. I might need to give you a shout if it all goes a bit pear shaped with this company though .

No worries although I am an infrequent visitor here. Every job needs a lot of geotechs because of the way the standards work. E.g, my first field job was on the Cardiff Bay Barrage in the mid 90s. Probably a $500m project in today's money, and a rock/filter medium/sand dam placed in a marine environment with a huge tidal range. Structures were built inside a giant dredged sand cofferdam at -12m on to a very sensitive material (mudstone). Breakwaters constructed from precast concrete caissons sunk onto stone beds prepared underwater. In other words, massive geotechnical requirements. We had 2 FT geotechs on the project plus a bit of call of work from some subbies.

A typical $100m job here will have 2-3 FT geotechs on site for as long as they're dealing with the ground. Every pile (!!!) has to be inspected by the geo, every proof roll, every CBR test, every rock cut has to be mapped, that sort of thing.

There are lots of projects going on at the moment, Westconnex ($16bn road tunnel project), Sydney Metro (NW phase 1 is $8bn, city phase 2 is $12bn), CBD light rail ($2bn), Parramatta Light Rail not far away ($1.5bn), plus lots of medium sized projects (eg Moorebank intermodal, Warringah Rd grade seps, Early earthworks/civils for Badgery's Creek airport, road improvements out west in prep for the airport)....and a lot of resi and increasingly again now commercial development. Seriously, lots of work out to 2025-2030

It's mostly rock (Shale over Sandstone) here, not so much call for soft ground expertise but if you have that then it's a good specialism to market because there are few geotechs here with the experience

Big geotech consultancies are Coffey, Douglas, PSM, Golders....lots of smaller ones too, and most of the big general consultancies have internal geotech expertise as well, especially the more "local" ones like SMEC and Cardno. There are fewer geotechnical contractors with a solid engineering/technical function, the contracting market is more fragmented with lots of smaller companies hired in to do SI, underbores etc. A few internationals like Keller are around

On a professional note, I'm a chartered engineer (ICE) with professional grade registration with UK RoGEP. Can you advise how easily this can be transferred to Engineers Australia registration?

I think it can be transferred very easily, under the Washington Accord your MICE and CEng is recognised by EngAust so you can just get membership on the nod. The question is whether to bother (I don't, am also MICE). There are lots of Poms here in the engineering/construction industry and your UK quals are recognised both officially and de facto, so no issue with being seen as and recognised as an engineer with them.

I'm probably the wrong person to ask that question, as I have a fairly jaundiced view of the value of Engineers Australia. It does a few talks and lightweight publications, but it's not nearly as high profile and powerful as the ICE. In the UK the ICE lobbies and advocates hard to the extent of shaping the industry - projects get built (Crossrail) that probably wouldn't without it, projects get changed and galvanised (Chanel Tunnel Rail Link) that wouldn't without it, the most common contract form was developed by the ICE, the ICE develops standards and Codes of Practice (eg in tunnelling). Engineers Australia just doesn't have the weight behind it or the profile to do any of that so I find its role very disappointing. Frankly it has allowed itself to become far too much of a skills assessment agency than a proper industry body/learned society pushing the industry and society forward.

But then, I am very cynical about the Australian tendency to try to licence and regulate everything on the assumption it improves standards. There is way too much concentration on being compliant here and ticking the box. And right now EngAust is putting lots of energy behind a registration scheme that is being promoted in Victoria that personally (having seen the one in Queensland and how that operates) I think is a complete waste of time and just another bureaucratic barrier that interferes with trade and adds cost - an a side industry to administer it, of course. You get a lot of that here. You don't need state level registration schemes if you have a proper professional status body, and most of us Engineers globally do. Just insist on people working as Engineers being a member of any professional body covered by the Washington Accord, what is added by making them register on a local scheme as well?

Sorry. Ranting ;-)

Anyway, that's why I don't bother with EngAust. Now I'm off my soapbox, I would say to suck it and see, and talk to people who are in it and ask what benefit they think accrues.

Best of luck on the move- I am looking down the very same route as you, similar circumstances- 457 visa, I'm from Cumbernauld and looking at all suburbs. My office will be based in McMahons point although I will be flying across Australia often. Suburb near CBD or Bondi would be ideal if you are based in mascot.

I know Sydney property is crazy expensive, much more so than central Scotland but the lifestyle will make it all the more worth it.im sure the howgate centre, behind the wall and the Falkirk wheel will be distant memories in no time.

good luck with your move

Best of luck on the move- I am looking down the very same route as you, similar circumstances- 457 visa, I'm from Cumbernauld and looking at all suburbs. My office will be based in McMahons point although I will be flying across Australia often. Suburb near CBD or Bondi would be ideal if you are based in mascot.

 

I know Sydney property is crazy expensive, much more so than central Scotland but the lifestyle will make it all the more worth it.im sure the howgate centre, behind the wall and the Falkirk wheel will be distant memories in no time.

 

good luck with your move

A BIG change from whats it called.. Cumbernauld. I too was brought up there. I hope you will miss the town centre, as you will never find anything like it again

Where to live, it's pretty subjective - if you have any way of not pinning yourself down straight away, you should take a look at a few places for yourself. If you can get some kind of 3 month thing set up when you arrive and can afford to spend weekends looking around, you'll probably be better off in the long run. You should get a better idea where to stay longer term after 3 months. (although if you have kids in school and all that jazz it's not too easy to do - as we found out)

Not sure about the rest of Australia, but Sydney varies quite a bit from suburb to suburb. The way I see it, if you are going to move half way way the world, and go through a big upheaval, you might as well try and base yourself somewhere where you can enjoy your downtime. Otherwise, you could be anywhere.

Commuting is a bit of a pain, it's not the distances. Just the traffic blocks up on busy routes - of which there are many!