Complicated family setup (applying for spouse Visa / UK Court for Leave to remove)

Hello everyone.  

Like many people I have stumbled across this forum today and think it's great.  

I have, what i think, is quite a complicated situation and would welcome any general advice and perhaps some answers to some questions I have.

I am 40 years of age and have just married an Australian citizen who has been living in the UK.

 I have two children from my previous marriage, both of which live with me full-time and I have a child arrangements order in my favour specifying the kids reside with me.  

There has been very little contact with their birth mother (far too complicated and the not the place to go it great detail) for two years.

My new wife is an Australian and we have a 9 month old baby who is going to be registered as an Australian citizen by decent very soon.  

My wife also has two children from a previous marriage.  

Both of the children are Australian citizens and their birth father has recently returned to live in Perth following a UK Court case and social services report against him.

We want to move to Victoria where my wife's family are based.  We all visited Victoria in 2015 for 3 weeks to see if I and the children would like to live there.

So I will be seeking a spousal visa and permission from the UK Court to remove my two children from the UK to live in Australia.

Today my wife spoke with Australia House and asked for some general advice, they said to apply for my visa on its first and then if granted I can go to Court for the leave to remove (UK court wont issue permission unless i have a visa) and then apply for the children's visa's.  

That is all clear in my head (i think).

So I guess my questions are :

1. I am super-organised type of person, shall i submit a medical report and the police certificate along with the application to ensure it goes through smoothly?

2. Does anyone have any general advice for me in regards to the visa and or the leave to remove case?

I'm a pretty switched on person (self employed businessman for 20+ years) and my wife is a PHD student - so we are both switched and can handle the application forms and dealing with all the paperwork so wont be using a migration agent, unless someone thinks that would be a good idea?

Any help, suggestions, advice, direction pointing would be gratefully received.  I do intend to keep a detailed diary or perhaps a blog of this so that like minded people can see how my situation pans-out.

Its not easy to find specific information on the net about leave to remove cases.

Thank you in advance 

Assuming no serious medical issues or past convictions partner visas are reasonably straightforward and just need a methodical and organised approach in presenting evidence and testimonials. I suspect most do not employ an agent, we didn't. There are plenty of spouse visa blogs on here which you may find of interest.

obtain medical and police checks when asked by your CO. Trying to front-load only complicates matters and does not speed up the process.

There are threads about 'leave to remove' and some posters are posting their personal progress. This is the most fraught element of the process (only know this though from reading others accounts) and you may consider it worthwhile to appoint a suitable lawyer to guide you.

Hello everyone. Like many people I have stumbled across this forum today and think it's great. I have, what i think, is quite a complicated situation and would welcome any general advice and perhaps some answers to some questions I have.

 

I am 40 years of age and have just married an Australian citizen who has been living in the UK. *I have two children from my pervious marriage, both of which live with me full-time and I have a child arrangements order in my favour specifying the kids reside with me.

 

There has been very little contact with their birth mother (far too complicated and the not the place to go it great detail) for two years.

 

My new wife is an Australian and we have a 9 month old baby who is going to be registered as an Australian citizen by decent very soon. *My wife also has two children from a previous marriage. Both of the children are Australian citizens and their birth father has recently returned to live in Perth following a UK Court case and social services report against him.

 

We want to move to Victoria where my wife's family are based. *We all visited Victoria in 2015 for 3 weeks to see if I and the children would like to live there. So I will be seeking a spousal visa and permission from the UK Court to remove my two children from the UK to live in Australia.

 

Today my wife spoke with Australia House and asked for some general advice, they said to apply for my visa on its first and then if granted I can go to Court for the leave to remove (UK court wont issue permission unless i have a visa) and then apply for the children's visa's. *That is all clear in my head (i think).<br><br>So I guess my questions are :

 

1. I am super-organised type of person, shall i submit a medical report and the police certificate along with the application to ensure it goes through smoothly?<

 

2. Does anyone have any general advice for me in regards to the visa and or the leave to remove case?

 

Im a pretty switched on person (self employed businessman for 20+ years) and my wife is a PHD student - so we are both switched and can handle the application forms and dealing with all the paperwork so wont be using a migration agent, unless someone thinks that would be a good idea?

 

Any help, suggestions, advice, direction pointing would be gratefully received. *I do intend to keep a detailed diary or perhaps a blog of this so that like minded people can see how my situation pans-out. *Its not easy to find specific information on the net about leave to remove cases.

 

Thank you in advance*

 

 

I'm currently doing this now, final hearing 4th Feb, message me if you want any info. Cheers MT

Wow Major Tom your situation (reading from your signature) is very close to mine, even in terms of where you are wanting t relocate to (we are also considering Berwick!) Thanks for the reply

Thanks for the advice Gbye grey sky. Thank you very much.

Assuming no serious medical issues or past convictions partner visas are reasonably straightforward and just need a methodical and organised approach in presenting evidence and testimonials. I suspect most do not employ an agent, we didn't. There are plenty of spouse visa blogs on here which you may find of interest.

 

obtain medical and police checks when asked by your CO. Trying to front-load only complicates matters and does not speed up the process.

 

There are threads about 'leave to remove' and some posters are posting their personal progress. This is the most fraught element of the process (only know this though from reading others accounts) and you may consider it worthwhile to appoint a suitable lawyer to guide you.

I have been in an almost identical position to you.

First of all, Australia House is talking absolute nonsense when they told you that you must have a visa first before applying to the court for leave to remain. You can apply today if you wish. In fact you might have trouble obtaining the leave to remove if you jump in and get the visa first.

There's two methods to allow a child to be granted a visa, the first is to complete a permission form and get the mother to sign. The next (more long winded way) is to apply to the courts. This is done by completing a uk court form 'c100'

I would suggest trying to get the permission first because the c100 route takes a lot of time, and may be very expensive.

Thank you very much for your input CaptainC. What they said, at first, did seem to make sense. In as much as - How can a UK Court grant me leave to remove if I dont have a visa?

I was advised to apply for the visa in my name first and IF granted then go for C100. Then apply for visa for children.

Do you think i can apply for C100 then BEFORE I have a visa ?

I have been in an almost identical position to you.

 

First of all, Australia House is talking absolute nonsense when they told you that you must have a visa first before applying to the court for leave to remain. You can apply today if you wish. In fact you might have trouble obtaining the leave to remove if you jump in and get the visa first.

 

There's two methods to allow a child to be granted a visa, the first is to complete a permission form and get the mother to sign. The next (more long winded way) is to apply to the courts. This is done by completing a uk court form 'c100'

 

I would suggest trying to get the permission first because the c100 route takes a lot of time, and may be very expensive.

Thank you very much for your input CaptainC. What they said, at first, did seem to make sense. In as much as - How can a UK Court grant me leave to remove if I dont have a visa?

 

I was advised to apply for the visa in my name first and IF granted then go for C100. Then apply for visa for children.

 

Do you think i can apply for C100 then BEFORE I have a visa ?

I did. So definitely yes.

Unfortunately, Australia House are notorious for not knowing what they are talking about at all. Only ever take the official advice from a registered agent.

I did. So definitely yes.

And can I ask were you granted permission to remove your child/children from the UK? And after that did you then apply for your Visa? (apologies if question are very personal)

And can I ask were you granted permission to remove your child/children from the UK? And after that did you then apply for your Visa? (apologies if question are very personal)

No problem at all.

Yes, I was granted permission in court. Also, yes I applied once I had the court order in my hand.

When I applied for the visa, I didn't send the order straight away and then I was asked for it, they only gave me 28 days to provide it.

The leave to remove process took months to complete.

So if I'd have done it the way that Australia House suggested to you, then I never would have been able to provide the documents in the time frame.

I am so glad to learn there is someone else with a situation similar to mine (relief!).

So this leads me to a couple of more questions if you dont mind CaptainC?

1. Are you a professional? What I mean is, was your job/experience/skills a given that you would get a job ?

2. In your application for leave to remove how did you demonstrate that you could provide for your family and get a job etc in Australia ?

3. Were there questions asked of you about how you were going to find a job/provide etc in Court?

What you have said to me makes sense, but also what Auz House has said also kind of makes sense. How can a UK Court grant me permission to remove the kids and go to australia if the Court cant be sure i would be able to get a job and provide for them?

Sorry for all the questions but please, please be assured that you have made my year by helping me here Thanks so much

No problem at all.

 

Yes, I was granted permission in court. Also, yes I applied once I had the court order in my hand.

 

When I applied for the visa, I didn't send the order straight away and then I was asked for it, they only gave me 28 days to provide it.

 

The leave to remove process took months to complete.

 

So if I'd have done it the way that Australia House suggested to you, then I never would have been able to provide the documents in the time frame.

I am so glad to learn there is someone else with a situation similar to mine (relief!).

 

So this leads me to a couple of more questions if you dont mind CaptainC?

 

1. Are you a professional? What I mean is, was your job/experience/skills a given that you would get a job ?

 

2. In your application for leave to remove how did you demonstrate that you could provide for your family and get a job etc in Australia ?

 

3. Were there questions asked of you about how you were going to find a job/provide etc in Court?

 

What you have said to me makes sense, but also what Auz House has said also kind of makes sense. How can a UK Court grant me permission to remove the kids and go to australia if the Court cant be sure i would be able to get a job and provide for them?

 

Sorry for all the questions but please, please be assured that you have made my year by helping me here Thanks so much

Yes, you're definitely not alone!

1. Yes I'm a ship's captain.

2. Yes you'll have to provide a whole host of info on how you will support the child.

3. Yes, although I already had a job.

I can see their logic but quite honestly it is twisted. I was in an identical position to you and knew I needed the leave to remove from jurisdiction. There was no issue with it being granted in the end, it was all done beforehand and it was mentioned that the intention was there to take my son to live overseas.

The UK court is only issuing the permission for you to remove the children, and is purely to facilitate that to take place. You already have the sole custody so it's likely to just be a formality.

You could apply for your visa now to get the ball rolling, get the court documents prepared and then add the children in mid-application, or you could get the court sorted first and then apply all of you together. I wouldn't recommend that you get a visa, then apply to the courts, then apply for the children, it would take years.

Given that you've had the kids for a while, are you sure your ex won't grant permission?? When we brought my stepson we asked his mum, she said yes, signed a specific form (1229) and off we went. She knew it was what her son wanted so was very reasonable about granting permission.

Hi Isabelj28, thanks for your reply. There is a possibility that she may grant permission, in all honesty I think i have assumed that she would say no, but there is a small possibility and I suppose it would be the right thing to do, to ask her first. So I think I may take your advice and ask her first

Given that you've had the kids for a while, are you sure your ex won't grant permission?? When we brought my stepson we asked his mum, she said yes, signed a specific form (1229) and off we went. She knew it was what her son wanted so was very reasonable about granting permission.

Hi Isabelj28, thanks for your reply. There is a possibility that she may grant permission, in all honesty I think i have assumed that she would say no, but there is a small possibility and I suppose it would be the right thing to do, to ask her first. So I think I may take your advice and ask her first

Definitely ask! We explained all the benefits, her son said how excited he was, we showed her pictures of where we were going to live, husband discussed maintenance arrangements and she said yes. My stepson was 15 and had lived solely with his dad since he was 4... So the situation is a bit different to yours. Hope it all works out ok, whatever happens :wink:

I feel your case for leave to remove was probably a lot stronger than mine, in terms of you being a professional and having a job already. I mean you answered the UK courts question if Visa's before even filling in the C100 (you had a job offer and are a professional).

I am not in a professional job and despite the fact that im a reasonably clever chap, i dont hold a higher education qualification and im not a 'skilled' person (in the eyes of Aus) and I dont have a job offer. Can I just say before anyone jumps in and questions me on my motivations or what I am going to do for money, Im self employed, will be moving my online business to Australia and my new Australian wife is a teacher!!!

Thank you so very much CaptainC for all your help though

Yes, you're definitely not alone!

 

1. Yes I'm a ship's captain.

 

2. Yes you'll have to provide a whole host of info on how you will support the child.

 

3. Yes, although I already had a job.

 

I can see their logic but quite honestly it is twisted. I was in an identical position to you and knew I needed the leave to remove from jurisdiction. There was no issue with it being granted in the end, it was all done beforehand and it was mentioned that the intention was there to take my son to live overseas.

 

The UK court is only issuing the permission for you to remove the children, and is purely to facilitate that to take place. You already have the sole custody so it's likely to just be a formality.

 

You could apply for your visa now to get the ball rolling, get the court documents prepared and then add the children in mid-application, or you could get the court sorted first and then apply all of you together. I wouldn't recommend that you get a visa, then apply to the courts, then apply for the children, it would take years.

I guess my question now is :

Should I apply for the Visa first or go to Court first (having spoken to ex and assuming she denies permission) ?

I would apply to the court first and prepare your documentation for the visa ready to submit.

First: go and talk to the children's mum.

if that fails, court then visa. But there's no point dragging everyone through a court process if it's not necessary. Plus, imagine how that would feel for her... The first she gets wind that you want to take her kids to the other side of the world is when she gets an official notification, rather than you making a phone call... Would imagine that might get her back up somewhat!! Also, I think courts look at what informal steps have taken place before resorting to legal avenues...

I think you are speaking the words of wisdom Isabelj28, thank you, I think I will take your advice.

Would i be right in saying that if the mother does grant permission and does sign then I still need to go to Court on C100 to get the documents ratified ?

First: go and talk to the children's mum.

 

if that fails, court then visa. But there's no point dragging everyone through a court process if it's not necessary. Plus, imagine how that would feel for her... The first she gets wind that you want to take her kids to the other side of the world is when she gets an official notification, rather than you making a phone call... Would imagine that might get her back up somewhat!! Also, I think courts look at what informal steps have taken place before resorting to legal avenues...

I think you are speaking the words of wisdom Isabelj28, thank you, I think I will take your advice.

 

Would i be right in saying that if the mother does grant permission and does sign then I still need to go to Court on C100 to get the documents ratified ?

We were advised by our MA that we didn't need to we had a signed form and documented evidence that she had given permission (emails confirming arrangements to and from her) The visas were granted, we arrived in Oz and our little family are very happy! (Ex even came to visit and stayed with us.... Very weird and certainly not suitable for everyone's circumstances!)

For the purposes of letting other users know I have just spoken to a lawyer online (JUSTASK) and paid for a solicitor to answer my question. The solicitor has 20 years experience in family law and has been on the site for 6 years with very good feedback. The answer was the UK court can and will make a ruling based on our plans and evidence. I dont have to have the visa in place before i go to Court So thank you to all those that contributed to this thread. I will be taking Isabelj28's advice first before I do anything else.

You must take a look at your original custody order first. There's a possibility (like in my case) that there is a condition that you can't remove the child(ren) from the jurisdiction, meaning you can't remove them from the UK without leave of the court.

It may not be a factor, but in my case it was.

If it does say that in the original residence or custody order then you will still need to obtain permission from the court, despite whether the children's mother agrees.

Many people get hyperfocussed on getting things right with the Australian Migration Law and just go for the permission from the other parent, not realising that they are breaking UK law by removing the child from the jurisdiction without the order to do so.

I can forward you the specific section of the both court orders I have, if you wish, just send me your email in a PM. The two orders are before the leave to remove was granted, (original custody order) and the one after, with the specific entitlement to take my son overseas to live.

Best of luck with everything, and please let us know how you get on.

My child arrangements order does mention the 28 day rule and regardless if my ex signs to give permission, I will, having slept on it, go back to court for court permission because my ex is the sort of person who can change her mind suddenly or even claim that i harassed her in to giving permission.

I will keep this post updated

Techguy, you must take a look at your original custody order first. There's a possibility (like in my case) that there is a condition that you can't remove the child(ren) from the jurisdiction, meaning you can't remove them from the UK without leave of the court.

 

It may not be a factor, but in my case it was.

 

If it does say that in the original residence or custody order then you will still need to obtain permission from the court, despite whether the children's mother agrees.

 

Many people get hyperfocussed on getting things right with the Australian Migration Law and just go for the permission from the other parent, not realising that they are breaking UK law by removing the child from the jurisdiction without the order to do so.

 

I can forward you the specific section of the both court orders I have, if you wish, just send me your email in a PM. The two orders are before the leave to remove was granted, (original custody order) and the one after, with the specific entitlement to take my son overseas to live.

 

Best of luck with everything, and please let us know how you get on.