Solicitor applying for VISA 189. Skills assessment

Hi

I have been extremely lucky and got PR via my husband who is a social worker. I haven't embarked on the conversion course yet because I am not sure whether I am to return to private practice. I have managed to find a job that I love in a similar field but outside the private sector so I enjoy the benefits of flexi time and no more costs and time targets! I may do the courses to keep my options open in the future.

Sorry that I can't help you - I am keeping an eye on this thread because I may go down the route of qualifying over here at some point.

Hi Peachy,

I am a newly qualified lawyer practising in Canada. I am relocating to Melbourne permanently with a Partner Visa. I been in contact with VLAB and advised I must provide my credentials for assessment. I am trying to gauge how many exams I will have and hoping you can shed some light? Or even provide guidance on finding job outside private route (I HATE BILLING!).

Any help would be great

It will depend upon your degree and VIC requirements . I did my degree 20 years ago and I didn't do company law. In Queensland everyone seems to have to do civil procedure and constitutional law. I also have evidence and trusts.

There seem to be a reasonable number of inhouse positions and government jobs but there is strong competition. Australia certainly isn't short of lawyers despite it being on the skills list and many of those want to get out of private practice. The key seems to be making contacts and ensuring that you demonstrate transferable skills. One thing I have discovered is that everyone within a certain field knows each other - networking is even more critical here than in the UK.

Good luck with your move!

Hi All,

Further to my earlier message I have now heard back from the Queensland Legal Practitioners Admission Board who have assessed both my Academic and PLT legal training. I am a newly 2016 qualified UK Solicitor 29 years of age.

I have been informed that I need to study the following on academic level:

Administrative Law

Civil Procedure

Contracts

Company Law

Criminal Law and Procedure

Federal and State Constitutional Law

Torts

7 in total relating to Academic.

In relation to the PLT I have to take two further courses:

Ethics and Professional Responsibility

Trust and Office Accounting.

I must say that I was hoping to have received back fewer subjects but having spoken to the Admission board directly they have informed me why. This news is still very fresh and therefore I guess I have the task of taking all of this information in and assessing where I can start these courses. Ie - Can I commence some of these courses in the UK or would it just be better to enrol into an Australian University and come to Australia on a student visa to undertake these. From speaking briefly to one University in Queensland the costs seem quite high to undertake these subjects individually around $4k per subject and the semester will commence in Jan/Feb next year.

I will email a bunch of the universities over the weekend to find out what the best study options would be to include prices and then assess whether transferring to Australia as a skilled Solicitor is still a viable option. I understand that I need to complete these subjects and be admitted into a state for migration purposes so that's fine, it just a matter or now trying to complete these courses. I don't think that there is any point in any appeals as I have been told that these are only considered if there is any new and further information.

If anyone has any further information or can offer any support this would be really appreciated either on here or please do PM me directly. I am sure that there are many of us in the same boat?

I will let you know how I get on once I have spoken to a few universities, but if anybody has any past experience I would love to hear from you.

I understand that the skills assessment lasts for 5 years and have been told that I have that time to complete the additional subjects. Part of me feels like I should just take the opportunity of a Working Holiday Visa and make use of the fact that I have not turned 31 yet and I should just travel to Queensland for a few months and then assess study options while working however I know there are study limitation on the Working Holiday Visa.

Its a shame the news is not better, this means that long term if I fancy a career down under, I first need to find the money and dedicate at least a year to studying either long distance or part time in person. I wonder how many people have studied extra academic subjects long distance, where they studies and what the experience has been?

Thanks again and sorry for the rant.

Andy

It will depend upon your degree and VIC requirements . I did my degree 20 years ago and I didn't do company law. In Queensland everyone seems to have to do civil procedure and constitutional law. I also have evidence and trusts.

 

There seem to be a reasonable number of inhouse positions and government jobs but there is strong competition. Australia certainly isn't short of lawyers despite it being on the skills list and many of those want to get out of private practice. The key seems to be making contacts and ensuring that you demonstrate transferable skills. One thing I have discovered is that everyone within a certain field knows each other - networking is even more critical here than in the UK.

 

Good luck with your move!

Hi Peachy,

Thanks for such a prompt reply!

I have two degree's one in Politics (prob doesn't matter) and LLB awarded in 2013 and with a 2.1. I have done company law, civil procedure and constitution. I have actually done company, corporate at university level and again during PLT training in Canada. I am hoping this is taken into consideration?

I know from the uniform principles that your professional training in the UK does not count.....I am wondering if same applies to Canada? Because in Canada you have to take - Civil, Criminal, Family, Collections, Company, Commercial, Wills/Estates, Property, Ethics and Professional Responsibilities + 4 assessments + 2 exams (solicitor) and (barrister) and finally 10 months of training at a firm!

It is a lot of studying and training before you become a lawyer in Canada and I hope it help reduce what I have to do in Australia!

Why in the hell do they make you take contract law when contract law comes from the UK!? Andy, do you take any further course study during your professional training course?

Hi

I don't know if helps to know, but when I was assessed by LPBWA, they did take my 2 year training contract into account when considering PLT subjects. I was more than 7 years' qualified when my skills were assessed and I provided a very detailed cv of all that I'd done in my training contract (3 seats - property, civil litigation/debt recovery & family) and all that I'd done since qualifying, including every course I'd done. I was assessed and exempted from all PLT training except trusts & office accounting and professional ethics and only had to do one academic subject - constitutional law.

I do think that it comes down to what academic training you did, how long ago and how much detail you give them about what you've done since. I included 2 signed references from senior colleagues I'd worked with saying they knew me as a family specialist and that I only intended continuing to do family. I don't know if it helped but I put these in to support my case that I only intended doing family, in the hope it would persuade them that there were no merit in making me study property, contract, company law etc.

My advice is that if you are more than 7 years qualified and are therefore eligible to apply for exemptions, go to town with your evidence. I even included a copy of an email from me to the family law practitioner's group in Perth asking if I could join and introducing myself etc - probably not relevant but all designed to build a picture that I was only ever going to continue doing family.

Good luck with the assessment - LPBWA were really efficient and it helpful with my queries.

i've been reading this thread with interest - i've just graduated with a first and been offered a training contract with a firm doing criminal law (alot of the work they do is 'duty solicitor work'), immigration law, family law, and employment law, amongst others. i did company and family law at uni but not civil procedure. i am also considering going into accounting or data with one of the accounting firms. the problem is that most of the jobs in the big accounting firms have already been filled - they tend to recruit a year or 6 months in advance. i am therefore considering doing paralegal (or other temporary work) work for 6 -12 months whilst trying to get into the higher paid accounting jobs.

which route do you recommend i take?

i've been reading this thread with interest - i've just graduated with a first and been offered a training contract with a firm doing criminal law (alot of the work they do is 'duty solicitor work'), immigration law, family law, and employment law, amongst others. i did company and family law at uni but not civil procedure. i am also considering going into accounting or data with one of the accounting firms. the problem is that most of the jobs in the big accounting firms have already been filled - they tend to recruit a year or 6 months in advance. i am therefore considering doing paralegal (or other temporary work) work for 6 -12 months whilst trying to get into the higher paid accounting jobs.

 

which route do you recommend i take?

Hi Westmoreland

I am not sure what sort of career advice that you are seeking. Are you already in Australia? Are you looking for a route to take you to Australia? If so, law and accountancy are tricky for different reasons and may come off the list in the nearish future.

Could you clarify your goal and we may be able to help a little more.

Many thanks

P

Hi Westmoreland

 

I am not sure what sort of career advice that you are seeking. Are you already in Australia? Are you looking for a route to take you to Australia? If so, law and accountancy are tricky for different reasons and may come off the list in the nearish future.

 

Could you clarify your goal and we may be able to help a little more.

 

Many thanks

P

i live in the UK but am currently deciding what career to go into (just finished university). i am not really fussed out of the options i mentioned, i am willing to do any. i have a firm option to do law as mentioned, but it will not pay as much as the others.

cheers

Still not quite sure if your aim is to get to Australia or not!!

You also mention pay - and criminal law not paying as much.

Not sure that we can be a lot of help if you are financially motivated rather than looking for a career that will motivate you for the next 40 years.

[This isn't meant to sound aggressive - just difficult to help if you have lots of options/ I am not sure where you are heading/ your goal is earning a lot of money!]

Still not quite sure if your aim is to get to Australia or not!!

You also mention pay - and criminal law not paying as much.

Not sure that we can be a lot of help if you are financially motivated rather than looking for a career that will motivate you for the next 40 years.

[This isn't meant to sound aggressive - just difficult to help if you have lots of options/ I am not sure where you are heading/ your goal is earning a lot of money!]

yes, i'm interested in emigrating, sorry if i have not made that clear peach. just looking at the viability of moving to australia of the careers i mentioned. i figured it would be good to be clued up before i accept anything, but i am aware things can change in the 3 or so years it would take to qualify as an accountant or solicitor.

i'm just pointing by mentioning money that it is also a factor i am taking into account. the reason i posted on this thread is primarily to ascertain what things i should be doing with one eye on emigrating with regards being a solicitor. if there are general trends around accounting / data/ legal careers that you mentioned, could you mention them? when i was looking a year ago (swamped with work in final year so haven't been looking much since) i remember reading the market for accountants is drying up.

i've been reading this thread with interest - i've just graduated with a first and been offered a training contract with a firm doing criminal law (alot of the work they do is 'duty solicitor work'), immigration law, family law, and employment law, amongst others. i did company and family law at uni but not civil procedure. i am also considering going into accounting or data with one of the accounting firms. the problem is that most of the jobs in the big accounting firms have already been filled - they tend to recruit a year or 6 months in advance. i am therefore considering doing paralegal (or other temporary work) work for 6 -12 months whilst trying to get into the higher paid accounting jobs.

 

which route do you recommend i take?

Well you have done well to secure the offer of a training contract so well done. You need to go with where your heart is? Is it in law or accountancy?

if you want to emigrate to Australia then I don't think accountants are on the list and solicitors are on the list but you will need good few years experience and then at least 3 exams and be admitted in oz

I'm sponsored by my partner to live in Australia and we live in Darwin so I had to be assessed by NSW. I am currently applying for the permanent residency part of the de facto partner visa but I Qualified as a solicitor in England and Wales in 2010 and had been working as a paralegal/litigator since 2005. I have been in Australia since August 2013 and studying since March 2015 to qualify in NSW/the NT.

I Was assessed and had to study constitutional law, evidence, admin law, corporations law, civil procedure and professional responsibility. I don't have to do any PLT subjects (only confirmed this week!) and have completed all subjects but civil procedure so far. I am currently appealing that decision because I work in a law firm as a Law Clerk and my whole job is based on civil procedure!

The assessment by the NSW LPAB cost $250 for the academic assessment and the same again for the practical legal training aspect. I had to send all of my University records, references, resume and an explanation of my job. The whole process was really time consuming and the admissions board only meet once a month or so. However being so thorough was probably the reason I don't have to study any PLT subjects as I gave them lots of information about my career so far.

Once assessed NSW run their own courses through the LPAB at Sydney University. This is a lot cheaper fees wise but from what I can tell you have to take the exams in Sydney and attend the weekend schools twice each semester in Sydney per subject so it all works out about the same when you consider flights, accommodation etc.

I am studying through Charles Darwin University and I feel they are expensive because I am treated as an international student still so the fees effectively double. They have been approx $2300 a subject plus books, Internet and other expenses because I work full time, study part time and attend online. However the expenses do help at tax time and I have received decent tax returns since I began studying.

You may also find that if you don't study at the recommended university that you may have to have the academic qualifications assessed by the admissions board again either before you start studying or at the end so they can make sure the course is up to scratch! You have to pay each time you are assessed by NSW Admissions board!

i hear if my appeal against studying civil procedure was successful after 09/08 but I have to start studying the subject anyway as the semester started this week I'm hopeful they will say I don't have to complete civil procedure so I can be admitted in October (they only have admissions 4 times a year in the Northern Territory).

i have really struggled working full time and studying. It's felt like a big chore because I have a decent amount of legal experience and was required to re study subjects which seemed unnecessary. It will be worth it in the end as I will be able to practice in my own right but I will be honest and say I have hated having to go back to uni again.

Hey, guys, I am currently studying Bachelor of Laws(Honours) and Bachelor of Business(Accounting) in Melbourne, Oz. Is that okay to immigrate to Oz after my graduation and my PLT completion?

PS. I can get enough score for immigration(currently proficient in IELTS(would be superior after graduation, 22 years old when I graduate), and NATTI at final semester or during PLT.

Hello all

First, I have found this thread incredibly useful so thank you to all contributors.

I am currently just about to complete pupillage at a common law set in UK with a focus on company, general chancery and, bizarrely, quite a bit of crime. I graduated from my LLB in 2014, finished Bar School in 2015 and was fortunate to immediately gain pupillage for which I am about to complete. Though this may sound a little optimistic, I would also hope to be accepted as a tenant in chambers.

My wife and I are about to pull the trigger and initiate a move to Oz. I am, fortunately, less concerned than I may have been about visa requirements as I believe my previous career as a secondary school teacher should still be valid to achieve a 189 visa.

I am, however, concerned about the number of academic subjects I may be forced to complete in order to gain a practising certificate. Does anyone have any experience about moving over from the UK bar? I am a little unclear as to whether post-qualification experience may be taken into account when assessing Academic subjects when one is yet to fall into the exemption category of +7 years PQE. For example, I did not study company law in the UK during my LLB yet I have spent almost 1/3 of my pupillage untangling complicated shareholder disputes; resolving partnership problems and applying for the compulsory winding up of companies.

Further, I note that several members (particularly @ Libbyyella and @ racman) are studying at UNU. I wondered if to comply with the constitutional Priestley 11 requirement you had to do both constitutional modules or only one? Is this also the case for the other wider units (equivalent of 6 modules in other non-award universities)?

If anyone has studied any of the academic course online at UNU, I would appreciate some comments on their experience of the process.

Many thanks

I'm not sure about the process so much if you are a Barrister but I have 6.5 years PQE and I was still required to study six subjects (admin law, constitutional, corporations, evidence, civil procedure and professional conduct) I don't imagine that 1/3 of a pupilage is sufficient to be exempt from corporations law as I still have to complete civil procedure even though I was an employment lawyer in the uk issuing claims in the employment tribunals and county court and I have been issuing claims in the Supreme Court, federal court and local court in Darwin for the last two years.

At charles Darwin university people do study from all over (theirs a girl in/from Brazil in my classes as well as some other Brits) I also only had to study constitutional law and administrative law.

I'm not sure about the process so much if you are a Barrister but I have 6.5 years PQE and I was still required to study six subjects (admin law, constitutional, corporations, evidence, civil procedure and professional conduct) I don't imagine that 1/3 of a pupilage is sufficient to be exempt from corporations law as I still have to complete civil procedure even though I was an employment lawyer in the uk issuing claims in the employment tribunals and county court and I have been issuing claims in the Supreme Court, federal court and local court in Darwin for the last two years.

 

At charles Darwin university people do study from all over (theirs a girl in/from Brazil in my classes as well as some other Brits) I also only had to study constitutional law and administrative law.

Thats an absurd amount of exams. With your experience I would think you would be welcomed in with open arms! That is how it would be if you came to Canada. Are certain states easier than others with respect to exams/courses to complete?

It seems I am one of the younger more inexperienced applicants on this thread! If you guys are getting 4-7 exams with that much experience, god knows how many I will get assessed! I am applying to practice in the state of Victoria and I am hoping the fact I am a newly qualified barrister & solicitor in Canada will get my a good outcome. Did law school in both the UK and Canada and completed my PLT here. Canada and Australia have such a similar legal system and I am praying the board takes this into consideration.

Anyone knows Canadian applicants who did the jump over?

Thanks for the information Lawyergal. That does seem a lot of subjects to do with your experience.

Were you focused purely upon employment law?

Did you do a full LLB in the UK or convert?

Further, do you do the courses online at CD university?

Sorry for the questions but any help is so gratefully received!

Hello all

 

First, I have found this thread incredibly useful so thank you to all contributors.

 

I am currently just about to complete pupillage at a common law set in UK with a focus on company, general chancery and, bizarrely, quite a bit of crime. I graduated from my LLB in 2014, finished Bar School in 2015 and was fortunate to immediately gain pupillage for which I am about to complete. Though this may sound a little optimistic, I would also hope to be accepted as a tenant in chambers.

 

My wife and I are about to pull the trigger and initiate a move to Oz. I am, fortunately, less concerned than I may have been about visa requirements as I believe my previous career as a secondary school teacher should still be valid to achieve a 189 visa.

 

I am, however, concerned about the number of academic subjects I may be forced to complete in order to gain a practising certificate. Does anyone have any experience about moving over from the UK bar? I am a little unclear as to whether post-qualification experience may be taken into account when assessing Academic subjects when one is yet to fall into the exemption category of +7 years PQE. For example, I did not study company law in the UK during my LLB yet I have spent almost 1/3 of my pupillage untangling complicated shareholder disputes; resolving partnership problems and applying for the compulsory winding up of companies.

 

Further, I note that several members (particularly @ Libbyyella and @ racman) are studying at UNU. I wondered if to comply with the constitutional Priestley 11 requirement you had to do both constitutional modules or only one? Is this also the case for the other wider units (equivalent of 6 modules in other non-award universities)?

 

If anyone has studied any of the academic course online at UNU, I would appreciate some comments on their experience of the process.

 

Many thanks

sorry only just seen your message. I would say that you need to put an extraordinary amount of detail on your application to the board, tell them exactly what areas

of company law you have done and hope for the best.

I did did constitutional law law220 module online, some unis

offer it as 2 modules but clearly that increases the costs so I did the 1 module online.

Myself and libbyyella had to also do professional responsibility and accounts. Again online.

sorry only just seen your message. I would say that you need to put an extraordinary amount of detail on your application to the board, tell them exactly what areas

of company law you have done and hope for the best.

 

I did did constitutional law law220 module online, some unis

offer it as 2 modules but clearly that increases the costs so I did the 1 module online.

Myself and libbyyella had to also do professional responsibility and accounts. Again online.

I am submitting my application in a few weeks. I have attached a 6 page letter outlining exactly all the courses I studied and included the syllabuses and course content of all the classes I studied at law school and PLT here in Canada. Do you think this will help cut down courses when they see everything I have done?

Hello, I am Smit and I am a Lawyer from India.I want to immigrate to Oz I want to know how to get positve skills assessment from SLAA?

Did u get positive skills assessment?

What are the English language requirement for the same?

Sent from my LS-5016 using Tapatalk

Does anyone have any updates on the skills assessment. Do you have to requalify before getting a positive skills assessment? Can you get a conditional admission and then a positive skills assessment?

Any advice would be appreciated.

Many thanks

I understand that you need to be admitted to practice in a State or Territory in Australia before you can submit your expression of interest and can be granted the skilled migrants visa. I have applied for a partner visa but a colleague had to do it in that order (she was employer sponsored in Australia whilst qualifying).

I just completed the qualification process in Australia and was finally admitted on 13 December 2016! I live in the Northern Territory but they refer you to New South Wales for assessment. For New South Wales admissions you have to apply and pay the fee twice, firstly for your undergrad experience and then to assess your qualified practical experience. I was "lucky" in that I only had to study six undergrad subjects and did not need to complete any post grad study but the colleague I mentioned above had to also complete two post grad subjects before she could be admitted and she has been qualified for about twice the amount of time I have in England and Wales.

After completing my undergrad subjects at Charles Darwin University I then had to get the NSW Admissions Board to confirm I met their criteria for admission by sending them the original documents from my university and then submit that approval plus the rest of my evidence which included evidence of completion of study in Australia, Police checks and references from two lawyers in Australia to the Northern Territory Law Society who approved my application.

The process becomes quite expensive (it has cost me approximately $17,000 in total) especially when you factor in the course fees which are about twice the cost for foreign students than Australian Citizens unless you study at a University affiliated with the admissions board like in Sydney, flight costs for study weekends and to attend exams, exam fees, application fees for assessment, police checks, expenses for getting the documents where they need to be but it is nice to have completed everything and call myself a Solicitor here at last!

Congratulations, that's great news to finally qualify. Did you have experience in Australia? Is that why you didn't need to do any post grad study. I have heard that most people need to complete Accounts and Ethics. Like many others the concern is that Solicitors are removed from the occupation list before the visa application is submitted. Have you heard of any circumstances where a conditional admission is granted?

Many thanks

Thank you! I've been qualified in England since 2010 and have been working as a Law Clerk since 2014 in Australia. I think I avoided the post grad subjects as I have covered the account manager role when she has been on leave in the last year so had sufficient experience thankfully. Unfortunately I had to do civil procedure at undergrad level even though my role has been primary litigation since 2010 as I only had 6.5 and not 7 years experience which was frustrating.

I am afraid I haven't heard of a conditional assessment. I understand you cannot get through the expression of interest stage at all unless you are admitted in Australia but you would probably be better advised to speak to immigration on this part.