How Green is the grass on the other side

Hey all - first post on here, so hi from John, Georgina, Lucy, Rosie and Rory!

We are a busy and active family, currently living in North Yorkshire (near Harrogate) - and have a pretty good life. Ive a job that pays me extremely well, and at the moment my wife is taking time off her work to raise the kids (who are 6,5 and 10 months).

We have talked about the dream for a while now, and are getting more and more frequent with our discussions. Our lives seem to have been taken over with watching the reality TV programs (which i take with a pinch of salt, its a TV SHOW at the end of the day), browsing job sites, and talking about how life could be in Aus.

We both love the outdoor life, sport, running, biking - and are fed up with the British winters/Springs and Autums.. (lol)

We live in a good size detached, 2 cars, good disposable income from 1 job - so I really cant complain about life at the moment - however neither of us can get the niggle out of our heads. So much so, that were looking to head over in December for 3 weeks, probably around NSW area - quite close to Sydney, as i believe that to be where i have the best job prospects.

I have a million questions, as does my wife - and i would suspect she will be on here frequently, so for now - hi from us all.. anyone with hints tips, welcomes or other - please do let us know, as at the moment it all seems a little daunting with where to begin!

Bye for now..

John

This is just my opinion of course BUT I think that the people who set themselves up to fail in OZ are the ones who obsess about the purely financial aspects - constantly comparing prices, FX rates, differences in the supermarkets, complaining about the quality of the bloody 'snags' (bangers!) Treat it as an adventure or an extended holiday. I can't imagine if you were booking a holiday to Benidorm in July you would spend the next six months obsessing about how it compared to Bournemouth! That would take all the fun away from the holiday surely. Coming to OZ is much the same thing!

I can remember spending the year before I came here, scouring the libraries for books about Australia, trying to imagine what Aussies were like from the images of the Aussie cricket team, the odd TV programme, like Father Dear Father (Down Under) or (Love Thy Neighbour (Down Under) - yes, I am THAT old! But I wasn't the slightest bit interested in endless comparisons of costs of living. Perhaps I should have done so though. I'd still have been working as the weighbridge clerk at Marchwood Incinerator in Hampshire, thirty-seven years service, a couple more to a very good pension, thirty-seven holidays to Benidorm too! Actually, I rather like Benidorm too, with its beaches the equal of Sydney's!

Coming for a recce is a good idea - but remember it will still be a holiday in essence, so won't give you all the answers It's good that you're not taking a TV show as gospel - the wonders of editing

Remember that making the move takes money - it can take a lot of it - plus a lot of time and energy, so it's important to know what you're trying to get out of it at the end of the day

I think it's worth a shot, but it's important to think about what it will mean for your lifestyle etc etc. It sounds poxy, but do a great big pros and cons list, and leave it on the fridge for a few weeks so you can add bits and pieces to it. Then you can have a look at it and get a better idea.

Some things are more expensive here - but food isn't one of them (so long as you shop with your brain!), travel definitely is (well DUH, it's much further away!) - but you can also have a weekend away camping, spend bugger all money, be relaxed and refreshed and not have to take any time off work.

Hi there,,,,that niggleing feeling ...yes we had the same 4 years ago that resulted in us moving to melbourne, I can honestley say after traveling thousands of miles around australia i can honestley say "hand on heart" a spot as wonderful as harrogate. I do understand the feeling your having but my advice is to stay put ...it sounds like you have a great house and lifestlye..the grass is CERTAINLY not greener here. is there any help or advice dont hesitate to get intouch....

It sounds like your life in the UK is going well so i'd fight that niggle and stay put. Jobs aren't falling off trees, property is incredibly expensive and the exchange rate makes Australia THE least attractive country in the world for British people to move to. School fees would also apply in NSW on temp visas.

All I can say is you must be prepared for a real struggle for the first few years, from my experience it is like starting all over and once you get through that Australia is a great place to live! I would think very carefully about leaving.

This is just my opinion of course BUT I think that the people who set themselves up to fail in OZ are the ones who obsess about the purely financial aspects - constantly comparing prices, FX rates, differences in the supermarkets, complaining about the quality of the bloody 'snags' (bangers!) Treat it as an adventure or an extended holiday. I can't imagine if you were booking a holiday to Benidorm in July you would spend the next six months obsessing about how it compared to Bournemouth! That would take all the fun away from the holiday surely. Coming to OZ is much the same thing!

 

I agree with that, but:

It sounds like your life in the UK is going well so i'd fight that niggle and stay put. Jobs aren't falling off trees, property is incredibly expensive and the exchange rate makes Australia THE least attractive country in the world for British people to move to. School fees would also apply in NSW on temp visas.

I agree with that even more. If you have an enjoyable, fulfilled and comfortable life at home then I think chucking all that in is a possible error

I say "possible" because arguably we've done the same thing. We had a comfortable and enjoyable life at home too and have not long ago moved over here, which we did for a better work and career opportunity. I didn't go looking for the opp though - it came to me. If it hadn't, we'd still be in the UK and happy

The biggest caution I have for people considering coming here is to steer well clear of "living the dream" sort of talk - this isn't a magical land where you don't have to think about money and everyone's on permanent holiday. Also be cautious about thinking you'll have a revolution in your outdoor lifestyle. The weather isn't perfect here all the time either, most of what you actually do will come from within. Yes, we go to the beach a lot more but that's only really because it's closer. We probably do a bit more outdoor exercise but most of that is purely because of less commuting distance so I can cycle (or run if I'm feeling particularly energetic) to work, and like you it was from a pretty active base in the first place

On the flipside, we pay a *lot* more for housing

It's definitely worth a visit though, to see what you think. Make sure if you do come you try and get around some of the suburban areas so you can get a feel for what living here might actually be like

Some things are more expensive here - but food isn't one of them

Come on

Lots of things I enjoy about living here, but our grocery bill is a fair chunk higher, and so it is for virtually everyone I've ever seen who comments on this - and this *isn't* because we blindly buy stuff that's out of season or try to stick to foreign brands we know. It's just a bit pricier here

Not a problem, we knew that and allowed for it. And the reasons for it are also OK in terms of lack of EU subsidies and the distance/biosecurity issues for importing. But apart from a few items, it's not cheaper here

If you can afford to go for an adventure then consider it but I would definitely leave the door open to return. Look at the sheer size of the place to start with it's ok living in NSW but once you've exhausted that it's not very easy to get anywhere else. You can't just hop on a train to get from one state to another and it's extremely pricey. Docors dentist(dental is astronomical) etc all have to be paid for even kids and all school equipment does too, books pens etc. The houses are nowhere near the quality of probably what you are used to. It depends on what you are leaving and what you are looking for, some love it but we certainly wouldn't give up a good life for it. My husband is an Aussie and we tried it....and we have 4 families in our village who have also tried it.....

Imagine the whole of the British Ilse...then scatter half the population of Leeds into it and set it adrift miles from anywhere. There are simply not enough people and the place is too vast to have any sort of decent infrastructure, this effects lots of things like choice/services/products/mindset/price. Too big a price for sunshine we found.

Good luck in whatever you decide.....just be realistic.

You live in a great part of the UK and sound as though you have a life many people would be envious of.

Just remember that you won't be exchanging that for the same here , unless you have a lot of cash behind you when you get here.

I think you do need to compare costs to see what your potential earnings would be and what lifestyle that would give you here, and see if you would be happy with that.

Australia has some great things going for it but it certainly isn't paradise and there are still bills to pay.

I would never try to dissuade anyone from coming here , but you do need to come with your eyes wide open and research properly before you do so.

Hi,

The vast majority of people who move to Australia settle here and enjoy their lifestyle. You should do your reccie and see how that goes. When comparing prices look at the % of your income you would spend on various items, How long does it take you to earn enough money to pay a months mortgage in the UK, compared to how long you would have to work here to earn enough to pay a months mortgage. that is a far more accurate than working on exchange rates. What you want to know is how hard you are going to have to work to enjoy a similar lifestyle to the one you have in the UK.

You will find various replies from both the Australia haters who feel no one should live here because they did not like it, to the Australia lovers who cannot understand why anyone would not like it here, The truth normally lies somewhere in between the two types of poster. Come over on your reccie and make you own decision with your eyes open. I love Australia but I do realise that some will not like it.

If you do not try it, will you be sitting at home in years to come and regret not giving it a go....

I guess it depends on your definition of green-by that I mean it's hard to give a standard answer to a question that has so many parameters.

I've lived in Australia for over 40 years and to me it's the best country and I could never be totally happy living anywhere else,but that doesn't mean that

I don't accept that it has problems and I would be stupid to classify Australia as paradise,because it isn't.

It really depends on what you want from the country,if you want warm weather and beaches then Australia is great but by the same token you do get warm

weather in the UK and there are plenty of beaches there too.

Australia is a big country and in many areas it lacks infrastructure like hospitals and schools-but that is why we need skilled labour-to build the infrastructure that

we need to take the country into the future.

Come see Australia,try it,suck it and see as they say,but come with your eyes open,have realistic expectations,accept that in some things it will be very different

to the UK but also in some ways it's the same-the bills still need to be paid and yes we do have rain-it's not always warm and sunny.

You may love Australia but you may also hate it-but please come and try it-you never know it may be the start of a whole new life for you.

Good Luck with whatever you decide.

Cheers

Nigel

Hey all - first post on here, so hi from John, Georgina, Lucy, Rosie and Rory!

 

We are a busy and active family, currently living in North Yorkshire (near Harrogate) - and have a pretty good life. Ive a job that pays me extremely well, and at the moment my wife is taking time off her work to raise the kids (who are 6,5 and 10 months).

 

We have talked about the dream for a while now, and are getting more and more frequent with our discussions. Our lives seem to have been taken over with watching the reality TV programs (which i take with a pinch of salt, its a TV SHOW at the end of the day), browsing job sites, and talking about how life could be in Aus.

 

We both love the outdoor life, sport, running, biking - and are fed up with the British winters/Springs and Autums.. (lol)

 

We live in a good size detached, 2 cars, good disposable income from 1 job - so I really cant complain about life at the moment - however neither of us can get the niggle out of our heads. So much so, that were looking to head over in December for 3 weeks, probably around NSW area - quite close to Sydney, as i believe that to be where i have the best job prospects.

 

I have a million questions, as does my wife - and i would suspect she will be on here frequently, so for now - hi from us all.. anyone with hints tips, welcomes or other - please do let us know, as at the moment it all seems a little daunting with where to begin!

 

Bye for now..

 

John

Hi John I only have a few things to add on this having lived in another couple of countries, firstly you will not get an appreciation of what is like to reside in a place with a few weeks holiday in a place which most seem to think, secondly if you have a good job then me personally I would suggest you keep it, I took a pay out as a Senior Manager for a large Telecom's company to live the dream in the Canaries and have regretted it ever since, the money does not last forever and neither does the novelty of being free, the way I see it, if someone is retired in the true sense of the word then it may be okay to move to anywhere in the world you desire, but again these are just my opinions and the choice is ultimately yours but there are certain things in life you can't get back once you have made the decisons and you personally have to live with that..

The one thing you do seem to have right is the grass is definitely greener on the other side, I have never seen so much rain in all my life since I have been here so if its the prospects of basking in the warm sun after you finish work, be sure to pick your location carefully as there is not a lot of call for Business Managers/Project Managers etc in the likes of Darwin and Broome..

It's just a penny for my thoughts but If you have a good job then stick with it I say or at least find out if you can return to it if you don't like the lifestyle that you may or may not choose??

Regards

Karl

It really surprises me that there are people who move to Australia without ever once visiting the country. What's that all about? To my mind this should either be outlawed under the points system, or the system should be made harder with bonus points for those who had travelled to Australia in the past 5 years.

It really surprises me that there are people who move to Australia without ever once visiting the country. What's that all about? To my mind this should either be outlawed under the points system, or the system should be made harder with bonus points for those who had travelled to Australia in the past 5 years.

True. However, not all of us can afford a reccie, and in other cases a job will force one partner to make the move, often within a short time frame. Therefore you have no option except to get on the plane and fly off into the wide unknown.....

It really surprises me that there are people who move to Australia without ever once visiting the country. What's that all about? To my mind this should either be outlawed under the points system, or the system should be made harder with bonus points for those who had travelled to Australia in the past 5 years.

isn,t that down to the individual? what you have posted is probably the single ,most ridiculous thing i have seen posted on here.

or is it a case of i,m alright jack?

To the OP, hello by the way.

Your post is very interesting and because I see so much of my own situation there I felt I should contribute something. I often avoid posts such as these because I feel guilty in appearing overly negative and do not with to bring doom and gloom to people's dreams. Please understand I only wish to provide some insight, and not be negative about Australia as it is a lovely country and indeed many people settle here happily.

Your calibre of lifestyle in the UK seems to be great, you also live in a beautiful part of the country. Most people I know at some point or another get those "itchy" feelings and feel they want or need to be doing something more exciting or challenging with their lives. Moving your whole family to the other side of the world won't necessarily give you the answers you are looking for, and if you do make the move, you may want to be prepared for quite a few sacrifices.

I am friends with a group of expats, and chat a lot on this site too. From what I can gather (although happy to be proved wrong) it really all does depend on what you have left behind. By this I mean, being out of work, unhappy with work, seeing no prospects for your kids, having negative equity on properties, not earning enough money, hating the weather etc. These familes/people are likely to be the ones who have a higher pecentage of success in an overseas move as they see the alternative as a kind of life saving solution, and anything will be better than the situation they have left behind! Let's be frank, going through the stresses and economic sacrifices of a move to Oz needs to be worth something, otherwise what is the point? If better weather is the deal breaker for you, then you will be fine even if you are earning less, living more frugally etc, but for many, long term, you do start to think about what you left behind. So, get your very main priority sorted out in your minds before anything else.

If you do move and end up with a lifestyle that is not as good as the one you left behind for one or more reasons it can rapidly go into a downward spiral. This is the reason a lot of spouses (myself included here) have trouble settling, as they feel they had no choice in the matter and just have to bear the consequences. Our life was better in the UK for a number of reasons, but we had no choice except to come here due to my OHs job. We too would sometimes get "itchy" feelings and wonder (as do many I think) what was the point and "was there more to life?" which I will be honest also contributed to us coming here. Moves such as these do help put a lot of things into perspective, and if you do sit down and be honest with yourself, you may find that you can find the answers within your present life, just by reassessing and making some alternative choices. Holidays also help! :laugh:

I hope you do come over for a reccie/holiday as this will at least give you an idea of what the place looks and feels like. We had no time for both of us to fly over previously as I was working in China so my OH came alone. I regret this now as I am sure we may have decided differently had I seen the place beforehand. Yes, of course the trip will not be like daily living but my goodness it will help to have seen it!

Sorry to go on, just hope that if more people can make informed decisions then they will be happier in the long run. If you secure employment and the price is right, offering you a calibre of lifestyle you are used to, then you will likely be successful. The rest, as they say, is what you make it. Good luck and let us know how you get on.

isn,t that down to the individual? what you have posted is probably the single ,most ridiculous thing i have seen posted on here.

or is it a case of i,m alright jack?

I can't think how uprooting yourself, your entire family, disrupting your children's education, compromising your pension and putting yourself at the bottom of the career ladder to go and move to the other side of the world to live in a place you've only seen on the telly is in any way ridiculous. Sounds like common sense to me.

I take 3FatCat's point that it's a different matter for the partner's of those emigrating on the basis of offers of employment. I was really referring to the skilled migration visas.

What's ridiculous are all the tools who move lock stock and barrel to Oz and then spend less time 'emigrating' than the average backpacker on their way up to Cairns...

It really surprises me that there are people who move to Australia without ever once visiting the country. What's that all about? To my mind this should either be outlawed under the points system, or the system should be made harder with bonus points for those who had travelled to Australia in the past 5 years.

I had never been to Australia before I moved here, I have been here for over 20 years, same for my husband, he's been here 24 years.

I deliberately didn't come for a visit first as I knew there was no way it would give me any real idea of what it was like to actually live here.

But then my reasons for coming were because I wanted an adventure and to experience something different, not "for a better life" or to "live the dream"

We're going back to the UK because we miss our families. No amount of research and preparation will ever help with that feeling.

 

I am friends with a group of expats, and chat a lot on this site too. From what I can gather (although happy to be proved wrong) it really all does depend on what you have left behind. By this I mean, being out of work, unhappy with work, seeing no prospects for your kids, having negative equity on properties, not earning enough money, hating the weather etc. These familes/people are likely to be the ones who have a higher pecentage of success in an overseas move as they see the alternative as a kind of life saving solution, and anything will be better than the situation they have left behind! Let's be frank, going through the stresses and economic sacrifices of a move to Oz needs to be worth something, otherwise what is the point? If better weather is the deal breaker for you, then you will be fine even if you are earning less, living more frugally etc, but for many, long term, you do start to think about what you left behind. So, get your very main priority sorted out in your minds before anything else.

 

Actually, I don't necessarily agree with that bit. We had a great lifestyle in the UK. We lived in a lovely little village, in a cottage that literally had roses growing round the door! We had lots of friends, hubby owned a great business that meant that I didn't have to work and could stay at home with the children. We woke every morning to the crow of the cockerel, had beautiful views of farmland, had family close enough if we needed them, but far away enough for them not just to call round. Commute for Matt was about 15 minutes, there was a great school in the village that the girls would have gone to, we didn't hate the weather and would just go out in the rain anyway. I didn't hate the UK, I didn't think that our children would be disadvantaged by living there. In fact we had a great lifestyle.

When we moved to Sydney, hubby took a five year step back in his career, and now earns half the pay to what he used to in the UK. We do live in a nice house, but we were fortunate enough to have had a big deposit so the mortgage wasn't so bad. We have had to tighten our belts and work harder than we ever have. It hasn't been better in lots of ways, but in the most important way it is better. We are happier and feel more at home here than we ever have.

We moved here because neither of us could see a future without a move. We didn't move because we were running away from something or because we didn't like what we had. We moved because we wanted to experience something different, because both of us had had this wanderlust (me particularly, even when I was a child I knew I wouldn't stay in the UK - I wanted to experience different things in life. I like being the odd one out, the foreigner).

In answer to the op. The way we looked at our move was that we had the opportunity, so why not. We never said we would come forever, we never said we'd come for any fixed amount of time, we just did it with no preconceived ideas of how things would go. We didn't think that the grass would be greener, we knew it would take blood, sweat and tears, and cost a bucket load of money. For us, it has worked. For others it doesn't. I have said before on these sorts of posts that there are two main types of migrant. There are those who get on and do the job at hand. They are the ones who make things happen, and who are most likely to settle because they make it work. Then there are those who wait for things to happen and expect Australia to give everything to them. Those are the ones who are destined to fail.

Good luck with it. It isn't an easy decision to make, but in the end you will make the correct decision for yourself and your family.

But would you seriously move 'to experience something different' with the exchange rate at 1.46? You would need a very tangible reason to come here now the stakes are so much higher - family, nothing in the UK, new job, before it makes sense to put yourselves to the bottom of the housing market/career ladder. At 2.5 when we came over it was so different - we had 8 months touring the country before we worked - now you need to be working immediately just to be able to afford a meal.

But would you seriously move 'to experience something different' with the exchange rate at 1.46? You would need a very tangible reason to come here - family, nothing in the UK, new job, before it makes sense to put yourselves to the bottom of the housing market/career ladder. At 2.5 when we came over it was so different - we had 8 months touring the country before we worked - now you need to be working immediately just to be able to afford a meal.

i think this is a big problem for some, a couple of years ago you could come over and have a decent safety net from the money you came with. Now that does not exist any more (or not to such an extent) and puts a lot of pressure on new migrants to find or start work straight away.

Glad it all worked out for you despite leaving behind a wonderful lifestyle. Hopefully all these replies will be useful for the OP.

[/color]

 

Actually, I don't necessarily agree with that bit. We had a great lifestyle in the UK. We lived in a lovely little village, in a cottage that literally had roses growing round the door! We had lots of friends, hubby owned a great business that meant that I didn't have to work and could stay at home with the children. We woke every morning to the crow of the cockerel, had beautiful views of farmland, had family close enough if we needed them, but far away enough for them not just to call round. Commute for Matt was about 15 minutes, there was a great school in the village that the girls would have gone to, we didn't hate the weather and would just go out in the rain anyway. I didn't hate the UK, I didn't think that our children would be disadvantaged by living there. In fact we had a great lifestyle.

 

When we moved to Sydney, hubby took a five year step back in his career, and now earns half the pay to what he used to in the UK. We do live in a nice house, but we were fortunate enough to have had a big deposit so the mortgage wasn't so bad. We have had to tighten our belts and work harder than we ever have. It hasn't been better in lots of ways, but in the most important way it is better. We are happier and feel more at home here than we ever have.

 

We moved here because neither of us could see a future without a move. We didn't move because we were running away from something or because we didn't like what we had. We moved because we wanted to experience something different, because both of us had had this wanderlust (me particularly, even when I was a child I knew I wouldn't stay in the UK - I wanted to experience different things in life. I like being the odd one out, the foreigner).

 

In answer to the op. The way we looked at our move was that we had the opportunity, so why not. We never said we would come forever, we never said we'd come for any fixed amount of time, we just did it with no preconceived ideas of how things would go. We didn't think that the grass would be greener, we knew it would take blood, sweat and tears, and cost a bucket load of money. For us, it has worked. For others it doesn't. I have said before on these sorts of posts that there are two main types of migrant. There are those who get on and do the job at hand. They are the ones who make things happen, and who are most likely to settle because they make it work. Then there are those who wait for things to happen and expect Australia to give everything to them. Those are the ones who are destined to fail.

 

Good luck with it. It isn't an easy decision to make, but in the end you will make the correct decision for yourself and your family.

i think this is a big problem for some, a couple of years ago you could come over and have a decent safety net from the money you came with. Now that does not exist any more (or not to such an extent) and puts a lot of pressure on new migrants to find or start work straight away.

Personally there's no way I would move to another country without a job lined up for either myself or OH, unless we were both currently out of work and therefore had nothing to lose. Even then, I'd probably just be applying for jobs all over the world (within reason) and moving to wherever I got one, rather than picking a country and spending loads of money on a move when I wasn't currently earning, without any guarantees at the other end.

Imagine the whole of the British Ilse...then scatter half the population of Leeds into it and set it adrift miles from anywhere. There are simply not enough people and the place is too vast to have any sort of decent infrastructure, this effects lots of things like choice/services/products/mindset/price. Too big a price for sunshine we found.

You are ignoring the fact that, whilst it is true Australia is a vast country, most of its 23 million people are concentrated in huge cities, and, apart from London, most of those cities are far bigger than any in the UK. It's ridiculous to talk about lack of infrastructure, services, products. I've just come back from a walk through Surry Hills and I passed more restaurants and cafes and pubs than I could count, all within walking distance of my home and just a small percentage of what Sydney has to offer. In my village in England, I had travel nine miles to Southampton to even get a small taste of what I can gorge myself on in Sydney.