Paying shippers - advice?

Hi,

I just wanted to check with other people: did you pay your shipping company in full, in advance? Is this the standard? I'm always wary of giving people all the money I owe them until they've done everything they promised me they would, but this seems to be what I'm being asked for! (they aren't being very clear, so I am, as ever, asking the voices of reason in PIO to make sure).

Cheers

Cat

Hi Cat, yes it's normal to pay them in advance, also any short term accommodation providers also ask for payment in advance.

Coo, quick answer! Thanks yes, I think I'd expect to pay accommodation in advance, I just have this little niggle (mainly because I sent a very annoyed email about something else to our shippers last week) that if I now send them £4500+ it won't exactly guarantee a good job cos then they have my money already so why should they need to! But if it's the norm then I guess it's okay. I think maybe it's the environment I work in now which is making me question it, which is very much a world where we don't pay people until they've completed a job and we're satisfied with it

Coo, quick answer! Thanks yes, I think I'd expect to pay accommodation in advance, I just have this little niggle (mainly because I sent a very annoyed email about something else to our shippers last week) that if I now send them £4500+ it won't exactly guarantee a good job cos then they have my money already so why should they need to! But if it's the norm then I guess it's okay. I think maybe it's the environment I work in now which is making me question it, which is very much a world where we don't pay people until they've completed a job and we're satisfied with it

I agree with you totally as like you say once you pay someone they tend to go on a go slow.

Hi Cat,

I totally agree. Normally you would expect payment to be made after the service has been delivered but in this case you'd be wrong. We have had about 10 freight companies come in and give us quotes for our move and all of them, without exception, want to be paid for their service upfront! We have had all sorts of accreditions waved in front of our faces but I believe the one that effects you the most is the BAR membership. This is what we have had in writing form one of the big boys in the freight industry:

"Complete Financial Protection. As members of the Overseas Group of the British Association of Removers (BAR) we are regularly assessed and are bound by the International Movers Mutual Insurance Company Limited (IMMI) advance guarantee scheme, which gives you complete financial protection. In the unlikely event of failure of a member BAR will appoint another member to complete your contract at no additional expense and with minimal delay. IMMI is the only authentic scheme offering total protection against insolvency. For further information please refer to www.immicl.co.uk"

Not sure how far this will go to cover against their agents in Australia going insolvent though! Looks like taking money upfront is the industry norm with little choice but to pay.

And the reason is two fold. Firstly, less honest people before you have disappeared without payment leaving their stuff in store in Australia with the Ozzie agent billing the UK company and the customer never coming back for it. The rules in Australia are different to here and you can't exercise a right to sell stuff to recover the debt. So its a nightmare for UK companies when it happens.

Secondly, the largest part of the removal cost is incurred up front. The cost of the labour & materials to pack and load the shipment and the cost of freight probably makes up 3/4 of the cost.

There are lots of things in life you have to pay for up front and then complain about afterwards if you don't like the service. I presume you will expect to pay in full for your airline ticket and sticking a claim in later if they lose your baggage.

In order to get you some consumer protection there are 2 accreditations you should look for from your mover. The first is mentioned above, BAR Overseas Group. Please do check they are an Overseas Group member rather than just an ordinary member of the BAR. You only get the IMMI protection with Overseas Group members. The second is FIDI membership. You asked above what happens when if the Australian mover goes bust. Well if your remover is a FIDI member and they choose a FIDI member to do the destination service there is a financial protection between the two parties via the trade association, from which you as a client indirectly benefit. Fidi members would only choose to use other Fidi members unless there is no option because of this protection. In Australia all the main companies are FIDI members so its very unlikely if you choose the right company at this end that your remover will not choose the right company on your behalf at that end.

That was question number one on my list of things that I asked all our removal quote people.

No BAR/FIDI = No further

We went with DB who were fine, I think they used Grace at this end who were fab

That was question number one on my list of things that I asked all our removal quote people.

 

No BAR/FIDI = No further

 

We went with DB who were fine, I think they used Grace at this end who were fab

That's good to hear, since that's who we've gone with! I will pay them then... as others have said, there are other things you pay for in advance, I just felt that it was worth double-checking (mostly because a) I'm annoyed with them right now and b) the industry I'm in, as I said, is very much one where nothing gets paid for until it's satisfactorily completed so my head is mostly working in that direction!)

Forgive me for sounding thick but you are annoyed with them and they haven't even moved you yet? Why go ahead if you have doubts about their ability? There is a lot of choice of moving companies out there, all of them BAROG & FIDI.

oh, a combination of it being minor annoyance rather than major (I suspect my annoyance is exacerbated by my lack-of-sleep-stressed-ness), the fact that they still have a good reputation round here (and particularly Grace, the other side), and that they are due to move us in less than 3 weeks...

fair enough, there are a number of companies who use Grace and if you are having your own container you could specify to whoever you used that you wanted them as destination agent and they would most likely happily oblige. At this time of year 3 weeks is plenty of time to get someone else. But if you are happy with your decision then go ahead. I think DB are a decent company.

All of the major companies have occasional hiccups. The difference is how they deal with the hiccups, i.e. customer service, and whether they charge the customer for hiccups outside the customer's control.

At the end of the day your stuff is pretty much equally likely to get from A to B in one piece, it'll just be slightly more stressful and expensive with certain companies if things do go wrong, and even then it probably depends on which particular member of staff you're dealing with.

and whether they charge the customer for hiccups outside the customer's control.

bearing in mind that sometimes some things are also beyond the remover's control. International shipping can be a risky business. Example, you get a dock strike and congestion on the quay. The shipping line is going to charge for the delay to the vessel and ultimately its the owner of the goods who is going to pay.