tracy303 Posted August 27, 2015 Share Posted August 27, 2015 My husband has recently gone out to Oz on a 457 Visa and naturally wants myself and our daughter to join him at some point. My worry is that my daughter is just about to start her GCSEs in the UK and I was wondering how they stack up against the Australian system. My daughter seems quite academic and is keen to go on to University after she finishes her A Levels/HSE but understand that if she wanted to come back to the UK to attend Uni, she would have to come over as an International Student. I guess my question is, how does the Australian system stack up against the UK system. If my daughter just takes the plunge and sits the Ozzy equivalents will they be acceptable in a British Uni, or is she better staying in the UK to take her GCSEs/A Levels. I keep finding lots of conflicting information on this subject and I am really confused. I am also interested to hear from ex-pats about how they find living in Oz compared to the UK. Do you love it out there or wish you had never made the move? We do not really have any great family ties with the UK, so missing relatives would not be an issue for us as I think that may affect some people. I do not really want to do anything for at least six months until I know that my hubby is settled in his new job; I don't fancy trekking halfway across the world to find out that the job was not what he anticipated. Its not like moving from London to Leeds of course; it's all a bit more complicated. Let me know your thoughts please. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jacaranda Posted August 27, 2015 Share Posted August 27, 2015 Hi tracey303,and welcome to PIO!Apologies,I can't help with your school questions,but I have lived in both countries for a considerable amount of time.In all honesty (and without sounding like a broken record lol)from my own perspective,one country is not better than the other,they are just different.I could quite happily live my days in either,with both offering different things.Sorry to be vague,but even if I told you the differences,its from my own experience and how I perceive things,which might be different from your or other posters. Ok let me ask you this,what are your expectations of Australia,and what do you believe it can offer you?:cute: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marisawright Posted August 27, 2015 Share Posted August 27, 2015 I agree with Jacaranda, one country isn't better than another, they're just different - and different people like different things. So some people love Australia whereas others hate it. My biggest concern in your case is the fact that your oh is on a 457 visa - for a couple of reasons. One, that's just a temporary visa - if you move out there and then he loses his job, you'll all have to leave the country. Having a temporary visa doesn't give him or you any special rights to apply for a permanent visa and stay - if you didn't qualify for a permanent visa applying from the UK, you won't qualify just because you're in Oz. Two, on a 457 visa you get no benefits or allowances, and I believe you'll have to pay school fees and must have health insurance as well. It would be wise to find out how much the school fees would be. If your husband is on a good wage and you're confident you can afford those extra costs then it could be a great adventure for the family, but as you say you've got to be sure it's affordable. Good luck! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sustain Posted August 27, 2015 Share Posted August 27, 2015 Your wait and see approach is sensible because your husband knows you better than posters on here. You then may wish to take an extended holiday to see for yourself, perhaps tying in with school holiday and week either side? Key point is Australia has smaller population therefore spread of costs creates higher cost of living. "Different" really is the key, there are positives and negatives in both country. The balance or net depends on what is important to you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NicF Posted August 27, 2015 Share Posted August 27, 2015 Where in Oz is you husband? This would make a difference as to whether you would have to pay school fees or not as not all states charge fees for 457 visa holders. Also how long does the 457 visa last? This would also make a difference as to whether it's worth moving your daughter out or not. There is no equivalent of GCSEs in Australia, just an end of school qualification at the end of year 12. If the job is only for a year or two then it would be difficult for your daughter to go from one school system to the other. A school offering the IB would probably be the best option if you did decide to move for just a few years. The Australian end of school qualification is accepted at UK Universities but you would want to be sure you would be here long enough for to actually complete it. Your situation is very different to most people's as it does not sound like moving to Australia is some kind of dream for you. To be honest it never was for me either and if it wasn't for the fact my OH is from Adelaide and wanted to be near his family for a while. I am happy now I am here though and my kids are settled at school but they were younger than your daughter when we moved. I would suggest going and having an adventure but you do need to be a bit careful with your daughter and her educational options. Having said that I couldn't imagine being away from my OH for six months never mind longer and I would just make the move and make the educational thing work out as best as we could. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chortlepuss Posted August 27, 2015 Share Posted August 27, 2015 Sensible to be cautious. 457 is a temporary work permit and you could find yourself between a rock and a hard place regarding university education costs. I would not sell a house or burn my bridges on a 457 - Just look at it as a temporary adventure. Having kids of school age makes it tricky. Absolutely agree with IB recommendation - would set you in good stead wherever you end up. My son does the IB, and although it is far more demanding than A level equivalents, could be just the ticket for your academic daughter. Plenty of great universities here so standard of education is up there - BUT your initial problem is paying fees unless you get citizenship (PR will get you local rates but not a loan). Additionally you could find yourselves paying overseas fees in UK due to being non resident for 3 years prior to application!! We came over on 457 and got nominated for PR - any chance that hubby could get PR sponsorship to give you a bit more security? Also, is he earning so much money by the move that fees cease to be a problem?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VERYSTORMY Posted August 27, 2015 Share Posted August 27, 2015 Be aware that if she attends uni in oz, she would be an international student as well if you are still on a 457 visa. So VERY expensive. If she returned to the UK to study, she would also be an international student. Be very careful of the 457 visa. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
janlo Posted August 27, 2015 Share Posted August 27, 2015 Happy to answer ! Firstly regarding education. Education is better in the UK generally but according to a survey I did :wink: degrees are easier to achieve so my son is staying there to do his. Loads of his friends work and do their study, it's much more assessment based/no dissertation (unless with honors) most just go in 3 days a week and all still live at home. It's just not the same Uni culture like in the UK. But a degree is a degree? Btw I think she needs to be out of country for 3 years before international fees apply. OK, UK v. AUS... Cons: no community spirit, you think it has until you come back to the UK! Defensive Australians, unbearable humidity, expensive housing (if you want to be close to the action - ok 2 hours drive out of city), expensive holidays. pros: reliably sunny days, beaches, positive Australian attitudes especially the kids, good pay especially for the unskilled, Go for it nothing venture nothing gained and all that but don't cut your ties back home :rolleyes: (Just my opinion, before I get slated) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bungo Posted August 27, 2015 Share Posted August 27, 2015 My husband has recently gone out to Oz on a 457 Visa and naturally wants myself and our daughter to join him at some point. My worry is that my daughter is just about to start her GCSEs in the UK and I was wondering how they stack up against the Australian system. My daughter seems quite academic and is keen to go on to University after she finishes her A Levels/HSE but understand that if she wanted to come back to the UK to attend Uni, she would have to come over as an International Student. I guess my question is, how does the Australian system stack up against the UK system. If my daughter just takes the plunge and sits the Ozzy equivalents will they be acceptable in a British Uni, or is she better staying in the UK to take her GCSEs/A Levels. I keep finding lots of conflicting information on this subject and I am really confused. I am also interested to hear from ex-pats about how they find living in Oz compared to the UK. Do you love it out there or wish you had never made the move? We do not really have any great family ties with the UK, so missing relatives would not be an issue for us as I think that may affect some people. I do not really want to do anything for at least six months until I know that my hubby is settled in his new job; I don't fancy trekking halfway across the world to find out that the job was not what he anticipated. Its not like moving from London to Leeds of course; it's all a bit more complicated. Let me know your thoughts please. My main worry would be the visa, which is temporary with no rights to go permanent, although a lot of people think it magically turns into a permanent visa after two years but that is simply not true. Your daughter could end up halfway through one system and then have no choice but to to move back to the UK and it would set her back. The 457 visa and teenagers just do not mix well! Somebody has mentioned having to be out of the UK for three years before international university fees apply. That is not correct, the three year relevance is that she has to be in the UK for the preceding three years for domestic fees to apply. Some people love living in Australia and others do not. Not having close family ties will certainly be a factor in your favour as the people that do are more prone to feeling homesick. But people can also just miss the place and familiarity. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Suzukiscottie Posted August 27, 2015 Share Posted August 27, 2015 Secondary school fees - In Vic, no fees as such other than "voluntary" school fees (some other States charge $4k-$5k for international secondary school pupils) which everyone is expected to pay which covers school costs for admin, and various other bit's and bobs. Possible extra for school issued laptop depending on the individual school. Extras for school excursions. Extras for study books (schools dont provide them like they do in the UK), theres a big trade in second-hand maths/physics/language etc books prior to school intake each year. Oh - and compulsory school uniforms; sports uniform, summer uniform, winter uniform, approved footwear, rain jacket, school branded rucksack etc - that lot cost us about $400. All the voluntary fees, excursions, books, uniforms cost us about $1k each child each year, maybe more. Secondary curriculum isn't better or worse than schooling in the UK. It's just different. We thought it seemed a much more rounded curriculum. A bit more relaxed in the topics covered until later years when all the focus changes when the real hard work and pressure arrives with the specific chosen subjects in years 11 & 12. International fees for Uni - circa $30k per year as an international fee paying student. Plus travel costs, study materials, any course extras etc etc. It's too general to start giving opinions on places to live, weather, community life etc. Everywhere is different, with it's own peculiarities. Missing family and friends is the biggest change to manage. Our family is very happy here in Melbourne. It's just been carrying on with life in a different place; not really better or worse. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
newjez Posted August 27, 2015 Share Posted August 27, 2015 Happy to answer ! Firstly regarding education. Education is better in the UK generally but according to a survey I did :wink: degrees are easier to achieve so my son is staying there to do his. Loads of his friends work and do their study, it's much more assessment based/no dissertation (unless with honors) most just go in 3 days a week and all still live at home. It's just not the same Uni culture like in the UK. But a degree is a degree? Btw I think she needs to be out of country for 3 years before international fees apply. OK, UK v. AUS... Cons: no community spirit, you think it has until you come back to the UK! Defensive Australians, unbearable humidity, expensive housing (if you want to be close to the action - ok 2 hours drive out of city), expensive holidays. pros: reliably sunny days, beaches, positive Australian attitudes especially the kids, good pay especially for the unskilled, Go for it nothing venture nothing gained and all that but don't cut your ties back home :rolleyes: (Just my opinion, before I get slated) Whilst I think the UK has an excellent education system, especially if you get the right school, I've yet to see any documented evidence that it is better than Australia. Could you post a link please? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
janlo Posted August 27, 2015 Share Posted August 27, 2015 It was me about the 3 year rule! I think that's what I meant. Lol. Sooo if you move abroad for say only 3 months and return international fees apply? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Suzukiscottie Posted August 27, 2015 Share Posted August 27, 2015 (edited) It was me about the 3 year rule! I think that's what I meant. Lol. Sooo if you move abroad for say only 3 months and return international fees apply? This has been covered a few times lately and the consensus was that apparently individual universities can examine each case and make their own judgement call on it if you had only been away temporarily. Edited August 27, 2015 by Suzukiscottie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skani Posted August 27, 2015 Share Posted August 27, 2015 I am also interested to hear from ex-pats about how they find living in Oz compared to the UK. Do you love it out there or wish you had never made the move? Where in Oz will you be living? It's equivalent south-north to North Africa to southern Norway and east-west to Ireland to Moscow so generalisations such as this can be very misleading: no community spirit.... unbearable humidity, expensive housing.... None of which is true for many parts...including mine...(says she, watching snow falling). So knowing where you will be based will give us a better idea of your potential life here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
janlo Posted August 27, 2015 Share Posted August 27, 2015 Where in Oz will you be living? It's equivalent south-north to North Africa to southern Norway and east-west to Ireland to Moscow so generalisations such as this can be very misleading: None of which is true for many parts...including mine...(says she, watching snow falling). So knowing where you will be based will give us a better idea of your potential life here. yeh and if your watching snow falling you won't be near a city SO cheaper housing! I rest my case. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
janlo Posted August 27, 2015 Share Posted August 27, 2015 Whilst I think the UK has an excellent education system, especially if you get the right school, I've yet to see any documented evidence that it is better than Australia. Could you post a link please? No I have no Link but I have evidence. The school work books we bought with us were way above the same year levels in Australia. They were placed close to top of the class in Oz coming from an average school back in the UK. Again PERSONAL experience but this is what the OP wanted. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Booma Posted August 27, 2015 Share Posted August 27, 2015 yeh and if your watching snow falling you won't be near a city SO cheaper housing! I rest my case. snow fell in canberra last week & the last time i looked it was the capital city. also i have taught in both education systems & iistrongly disagree with your assessment of the oz education system. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
janlo Posted August 28, 2015 Share Posted August 28, 2015 Lol. Ok. Well I wasn't thinking of her emigrating to Canberra! I thought it was mainly government employment there (with some of the best schools in Australia) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Bobajob Posted August 28, 2015 Share Posted August 28, 2015 Happy to answer ! Firstly regarding education. Education is better in the UK generally but according to a survey I did :wink: degrees are easier to achieve so my son is staying there to do his. Loads of his friends work and do their study, it's much more assessment based/no dissertation (unless with honors) most just go in 3 days a week and all still live at home. It's just not the same Uni culture like in the UK. But a degree is a degree? Btw I think she needs to be out of country for 3 years before international fees apply. OK, UK v. AUS... Cons: no community spirit, you think it has until you come back to the UK! Defensive Australians, unbearable humidity, expensive housing (if you want to be close to the action - ok 2 hours drive out of city), expensive holidays. pros: reliably sunny days, beaches, positive Australian attitudes especially the kids, good pay especially for the unskilled, Go for it nothing venture nothing gained and all that but don't cut your ties back home :rolleyes: (Just my opinion, before I get slated) International education studies show education in Australia far exceeds that on offer in the U.K. Sense of community and humidity varies hugely depending on location, sick of hearing that particular silliness wheeled out regularly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chortlepuss Posted August 28, 2015 Share Posted August 28, 2015 For high school International Baccalaureate is the same standard wherever - that's the beauty of it. They have a wide scoring system - with a number of differentiation points for top grade students. The issue is that it's much more work to get top grades than achieving top grades at 'A' level (4 'A's in the UK) Re: UK university V Oz - I'm actually coming round to the feeling that Australian university students have things a bit better than UK - It's not all over if you don't get great marks - there are lots of pathways in - even for subjects like medicine. Kids often live at home in Oz - sure they don't get the 'student experience' but they don't get the huge debt either. I am getting seriously nervous about decreasing standards in UK caused by commercialisation of education and pressure on establishments to look good by awarding top marks - Many of my Facebook friends have posted about the great results their kids have got - Usually 4 'A' levels - combination of A* and A, backed up by a healthy smattering of 'A''s at GCSE. These are bright kids but are they all geniuses? OK they could all be as brainy as Stephen Hawking but somehow I doubt it. In my day (yonks ago - 1980's) going to the best girl's grammar in the area, only one girl got straight 'A's' and she WAS a genius - Most bright kids got a range of A-C with the odd 'A'. Teaching friends tell me they dare not mark kids down due to performance pressures. 80% of uni students now get firsts or 2:1's (firsts pretty rare in my day too). I actually do worry that the more measured grades my kids get in Oz may reflect badly when/if they return to the UK (no first class equivalent = dullard) but I have to say that the education they have received here is pretty good, and I would have had to pay a lot of money in the UK to get the equivalent to my son's first class education at state school(IB) in Brissy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skani Posted August 28, 2015 Share Posted August 28, 2015 (edited) yeh and if your watching snow falling you won't be near a city SO cheaper housing! I rest my case. I'm actually in a suburb of Hobart...which is a city...with cheaper housing. But that's my point: the OP didn't say WHERE in Oz she will be living. It could be Sydney...it could be Kununurra...who knows? Without that information, comments about climate, housing cost or educational options may be irrelevant. Edited August 28, 2015 by Skani Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Bobajob Posted August 28, 2015 Share Posted August 28, 2015 No I have no Link but I have evidence. The school work books we bought with us were way above the same year levels in Australia. They were placed close to top of the class in Oz coming from an average school back in the UK. Again PERSONAL experience but this is what the OP wanted. I'm interested in the 'logic' that infers you can extrapolate the experience from one solitary school across a country with different education systems in six states and two territories? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
starlight7 Posted August 28, 2015 Share Posted August 28, 2015 On a 457 visa I would not even consider moving over here. Much too risky and there is a lot of angst at the moment over those visas- and not in a good way! For a holiday, sure, but not for any permanent stay. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tracy303 Posted August 28, 2015 Author Share Posted August 28, 2015 Firstly, let me say thank you for all your response which are much appreciated. Now somewhere along the line my hubby mentioned permanent residency so this is a point I need to clarify: are we on a 247 or PR. Obviously that would make a huge difference on where we stand. We will be living in Sydney which I believe is really expensive for housing. My husband had a quick recce in Campbelltown and said it seemed nice and a lot cheaper. I currently live in Berwick upon Tweed which is cheap as chips for housing ie $1200 per month for a good 3 bed house rental. I anticipate having to pay double that for a comparable property in the Sydney suburbs. I am more of a rural person at heart so do not think I would cope well living smack in the middle of the city anyway. The education advice is really good and the IB definitely sounds the way to go as it keeps my daughter's options open. However, as you say, we really to check out the visa situation before making any real decisions. i have been to Oz for a holiday and initially stayed in a small town called St James 'near' Melbourne. My mother in law lived there but has now sadly passed. The community spirit it St James was second to none and the whole town seemed to take my m-in-law under their wing and really looked after her. Everyone was just so friendly. We also stayed in Melbourne, Sydney and Port Douglas. Clearly we did not notice the 'community spirit in quite the same way in the cities but most people seemed friendly and helpful. I did originally come from London so I appreciate that you the smaller the community the more likely you are to benefit from a 'community spirit'. My husband is on a good salary I think but not an amazing salary for Sydney so I think I would definitely need to work to maintain a similar lifestyle. I would want to work anyway as it always helps you to fit into somewhere new I think. i did really enjoy Oz so I do not think I would, personally have any issues and they also love rugby. My daughter plays rugby and refuses to go to Oz unless she can find a comparable team to play for lol! The heat I can cope with as I spent 2 years in Cyprus and that can get to 42 deg plus 85% humidity. I'm not so sure about my daughter but she is young and would no doubt adapt. i did laugh about the comments about the UK's current grading system where you seem to get an A* for just turning up for an exam these days as I too went through the old O level system where only the really bright kids got an A. I had never heard of an A*. That all changes this year as my daughter's year are doing the new style where grades are going to be marked 1 - 9 with 1 being the highest but it is going to be harder to achieve s 1 grade allegedly. Less or no course work, so basically the old O level style exam with a different grading system! once again thank you for all your comments and I will post again when I ask my OH what visa we have got. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bungo Posted August 28, 2015 Share Posted August 28, 2015 If he was sponsored it is very unlikely that you have a permanent visa. It is possible, but unlikely because that is not what employers tend to do because the permanent ones do not bind the employee. And if you do have the 457, please don't believe anyone that tells you "you can apply for PR in two years", I expect you will hear that as loads seem to think it. There is no permanent visa which has the passing of time as the only qualifying factor. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.