My experience of 7 years in Australia

[lechatnoir]

I moved to Sydney in 2007 to support my then Australian partner, now wife, due to her mother's illness. Because we did not know if she or we would be returning to London the move involved a de facto spouse visa, quitting our jobs and saying goodbye.

 

We lived in Sydney for nearly 5 years and with two kids moved to Brisbane where we have spent the last 2 years.

 

Below are some of the good and bad experiences from living in Australia - and perhaps explain why I now wish we had stayed in the UK. I appreciate that my experiences are not the same as others and equally those of you reading this should appreciate there is often greater complexity to life so each success and failure has its own back story.

 

Work

I'll start with employment as this is probably the most important issue for those not backpacking or on a gap year. I am degree educated and back in 2007 found the job market in Sydney very accommodating. Looking for a professional job was almost too easy; most interviews began with "when can you start?" rather than the interrogation I was used to in the UK. Within 2 weeks of job hunting i was turning offers down and cherry picking a great career move in consulting.

I transferred to Brisbane without any concerns and my employer readily gave financial assistance to moving the family. Whilst many large firms operate a State business model (ie if NSW staff have too much work there's no guaratnee it gets shared with QLD, WA etc.), there is acknowledgement of people's professional experience. For an upwardly mobile country there are many people who have degrees but not so many who have been there and done that - across all professions i have found UK people doing very well with senior roles.

 

However, as you may be aware whilst Australia generally avoided the 2011 GFC fall outs, now since 2013 the economy is in quite a fragile transition. On face value we are told that the massive down turn in the mining industry has resulted in both government and private enterprise lacking money coming in. The other issue is that many firms and government sectors are using this period of slow growth to cull large numbers of staff.

Don't come here expecting a buoyant job market, good jobs are hard to come by and it's become competitive for the first time. For example, the major car manufacturers are closing substantial operations, Qantas is near bankrupt and letting thousands of staff go, the QLD and VIC state governments are in substantial debt and thus spending on services is being halted and state owned assets, including local parks, are being sold to drastically raise revenue.

Having said that if you are in certain niche industries there is I'm sure plenty of opportunity but it definitely feels like the days of UK people falling into great jobs has, for now, come to an end.

 

Child Care and Schools

 

I have 2 kids who are under 6 and have been in child care and now the pre-school system. Unfortunately, beyond my own school experience i have no comparison to the UK as a parent but here are some thoughts.

In Sydney we needed 2 incomes (total gross salaries of >$170,000 per annum) to live anywhere remotely enjoyable and close to the Sydney life style. This meant my wife worked a minimum of 3 days a week full time and our first child went to child care. The child care centre was fine and particularly once she was over 2 years old the daily activities were fun and of course most of the day was spent outdoors in the fresh air!

Once we had two children, even with government rebates, the cost of child care within the inner suburbs of Sydney was more than my wife's salary (after tax) so it was quickly apparent she was going to work and we had less money as a result.

In Brisbane however the cost of living is much lower so once we moved her my wife quit work and we have been a one income family ever since. So a big plus for our family and providing parental support during the important early years.

A disappointment has been the public school system (state funded schooling), we found that schools rigorously applied our postcode to their catchment areas. In fact we found out from schools and from real estate agents that in some streets the cut off for a school is a house number so you could find you can't send your children to the same school as your neighbours.

 

This had two outcomes - firstly the real estate (housing) market can be very competitive once you find out the right streets. Secondly, we had to opt for private schooling to ensure our children had the best available education. School fees are around $2,000 a year up to the age of 11 so its not unreasonably expensive before people think we are very wealthy and sending our kids off to some $10,000 a term school for the children of lawyers and doctors.

The reward has been a school that seems vastly superior to what we could get in the UK. My mum is a school teacher of over 30 years in Kent and on her last visit spent a few days in the school and could not be more impressed with the teaching, resourcing and class sizes. She even said that we couldn't get a school like this in England.

As he has his older sibling at the school our youngest child will also be able to go there. So overall schooling has a huge tick against it for now. By the time the kids are at high school age we expect to have to pay about $12-15,000 a year to ensure they continue to get a good private school education because again we cannot afford to live in the postcodes within the catchments of the best state schools.

 

Friends and Family

 

As I am the one in our family living away from family, this has been the biggest negative of the whole experience.

 

Australian life is very different from UK life. People are quite local in their lifestyle, I found in my own work and witnessed in others that the sprawling geography means people do not live very close to each other and spend a lot of time in their own localities. As such i found it difficult to be doing the same things and being in the same place as the Australians i got to know through work. As such friendships rarely progressed to a stage where people were inviting me into their social circles in fact most relationships through work start and end with the working week.

Having said that I was the outsider and most people had their own lives and their own friends. I just found that whilst very friendly Australian's have a notable separation between work life and non-work life.

 

For the first few years the novelty of being in Australia meant i did not feel i was missing home and family very much. But as the novelty wore off, my kids grew older and I'm afraid to say the older generations of my UK family died - i realised that my life was happening increasingly detached from all my family.

This is a pretty obvious outcome from moving but it is not one to underestimate. You cannot just pop over to the UK to see family - for example 4 flights this Christmas is $10,000 (just the flights alone!). Skype is wonderful but it does not replace your parents coming over on a Sunday for lunch and a play with your kids. It doesn't not provide any support if you are sick, tired or just need 10 minutes of time from a close friend or a treasured relative.

Unfortunately my wife's family can't offer us much support and our experience has been as your kids get older you soon realise you are doing it all on your own. For those of you without kids or considering kids - again do not underestimate the emotional and physical challenges of raising a family with no support. OK plenty of people do it and our kids are great and thriving but for my wife and I it has certainly taken a massive toll on our relationship, energy and sanity.

 

Environment

 

Let's get the obvious statement out of the way - in Australia, especially in summer it can be very, very hot during the day time and night. If you don't like the heat don't come because life is not lived indoors here.

The overwhelming bonus of living in Australia is the climate. From my experience in Sydney and Brisbane there is no real cold weather, the lowest it gets at night in winter is about 5-10 degrees so all those coats, wool jumpers, hats, scarves - leave them in the UK unless you are going to Adelaide or Melbourne.

Because of the weather everyone is outdoors and not necessarily sunbathing (in fact Aussies are very concious of the dangers of too much sun, its mainly the Europeans spending 8 hours on the beach getting high levels of UV). Most of your time will be spent in the parks, beaches, beautiful landscapes and this is ALL year round.

No winter blues longing for the rain and grey skies to go. No getting soaking wet before you are even at work or school. No need to pack for all weather conditions. The seas are warm, beaches on the whole are clean and there are some great touches like free gas BBQ's in the parks and beaches. You can easily spend all day in the fresh air.

 

Add to this the wonderful holiday destinations with the pure white beaches and crystal waters, the expansive star laden skies, the mountains etc. - all those tourist brochure photos are all here to enjoy.

The only two negatives are a) it is more expensive to holiday in Australia than to go to Fiji and b) in Queensland the sun is up at 4am in summer and because of the high humidity you have to be ready to start your day early because some days even walking from your house at 11am can have you sweating and looking for air conditioning.

 

Money

 

I won't discuss money too much as it is relative to people on an individual level but overall i find certainly in Brisbane we have more disposable income than in the UK. Salaries are comparable in so much as try not to use the exchange rate but work out what percentage of your salary in the UK goes on rent/mortgage and food bills and see what percentage that would be in Australia.

Two downsides are that if you have to rely on Australian dollars to travel - its is expensive (with possible exception of the USA at the moment) and second if you want anything from overseas there seems to be a massive Aussie tax even if it comes from China.

 

The price of cars, internet and food between the UK and Australia is one such disparity - to me there is no logical reason why these commodities are so much more expensive (in terms of percentage of income) than they are in the UK. I suppose its down to the lack of a free market economy - there is minimal choice in things like gas/electricity/internet supply for example so you just have to pay the going rate rather than have providers fighting for your business.

 

I think this is probably enough for now. In summary i regret moving because despite trying I just can't recreate my friends and family over here and once the novelty wears off I have realised its the people not your surroundings that really add value to life.

Edited September 1, 2014 by lechatnoir

[mithu93kum]

Great writing from the core of your heart!

[Pumpkin]

Very good post and I can relate to some parts of that.

[cathy99]

Thank you for taking the time to write this, it was a very interesting read, i've only been here 7 months and love it, so do my children (5 & 8), but i can definitely relate to the family and friends bit and this will be the ultimate deciding factor for me in the long term :0)

[calNgary]

Brilliant ,informative post, thanks for sharing. We have been in Brisbane almost 8 years and i agree with pretty much everything you say about life here.

 

 

Cal x

[Gbye grey sky]

A wonderfully balanced post. Sorry to hear that the separation from family etc is putting such a major dampener on it for you.

 

I would just add that though my family are in the UK with us they have played absolutely no part in my daughter's upbringing, provided zero support, seen rarely, and are only a couple of hours away. Our experience is probably not typical but just pointing out that it is not necessarily the case that being in the same country as family provides people with children any support.

 

It does look as though your family is enjoying a great quality of life over there.

[Dawn2002]

A really interesting read. We've only been here nearly a year now but I can identify with a lot of what you are saying. We're probably still in the novelty phase.

 

One question, just interested, do you regret the move enough to consider going back to the UK ?

[xxlornaxx]

Great post but I def need my scarfs n jumpers..n im in qld..only first thing In morning in winter though...but im probably just soft

[Guest]

I agree almost entirely with your perspective except in Perth we had a lot less disposable income - this was a mix of expensive housing compared to where we moved from and being unable to command such a high salary in my industry (IT).

 

After 5 years we decided Australia just wasn't worth it for us and moved back to the UK. We've been back a year now and couldn't be happier. That's harder though in a mixed marriage where one person is always going to be away from home.

[Gbye grey sky]

Great post but I def need my scarfs n jumpers..n im in qld..only first thing In morning in winter though...but im probably just soft

 

We came back a week ago after a a recce and I definitely needed a fleece first thing in the morning and in the evenings wore jumpers inside and appreciated the heavy duvet. But then I know I am soft.

[starlight7]

That was a really interesting post, lechat. A lot of luck is involved with who you meet I think. For some time we lived in Tassie and I found exactly as you did that people were friendly and all that but really had no room for extra friendships in their lives which were mostly family and extended family centred. Not so Melbourne though- we made some wonderful friends who we still see today. Just luck of the draw I think.

[lechatnoir]

Dawn2002

A really interesting read. We've only been here nearly a year now but I can identify with a lot of what you are saying. We're probably still in the novelty phase.

 

One question, just interested, do you regret the move enough to consider going back to the UK ?

 

 

 

If it was just me then I think I would seriously consider going back to the UK in the New Year. At the moment I would like a bit more confidence in the job market before moving.

 

However, because we are a family now a move to the UK is 99% out of the question. When my wife and i sit down and weigh up the differences and the pros and cons - Australia always wins. Despite the lack of family support, we can offer our kids a better standard of living here and the reality of everyday life in the UK is not summer in Italy, spring in Paris and winter in Switzerland.

 

What i would have liked to have changed was to spend more time as a couple building a life here before we had kids. And secondly having done that, actually sat down and thought where do we want to have a family.

[Quoll]

I'm intrigued why the standard of living is perceived as "better" my observation is that it's different in many regards but the variety of everything, access to more and more varied opportunities even a variation in weather offers a great standard of living. If you're not getting much support where you are and could get more elsewhere then that's a reason for moving on. Both my adult sons say they enjoyed their childhood in Australia, didn't think much of Uni and both regret our isolation from extended family networks. One did say a decade ago that he would like his kids to have an Aussie childhood but now he is a parent, Australia is the last thing on his mind - he's not even concerned enough to get his son registered as a citizen.

 

First world countries are going to be much of a muchness for outcomes for kids so it's the other stuff that is more influential. However, in a mixed marriage one of you is always going to be alien unfortunately and it's how you deal with that and which one of you copes best with it that is important.

 

Long term planning and discussion is important - thats the thing that let us down - we both thought the other shared our expectations and it came as a cruel shock to both of us to find that wasn't so. However life throws you curve balls and I came out on the winning side for a while!

[fish.01]

'Once we had two children, even with government rebates, the cost of child care within the inner suburbs of Sydney was more than my wife's salary (after tax) so it was quickly apparent she was going to work and we had less money as a result.'

 

Surprised by this...did her income push you over a means test limit perhaps and you lost family tax payments as well which tipped the balance ?

[Chortlepuss]

Loved reading this well articulated post. I could agree with almost all of it. A really considered balanced view. Thank you so much for taking the time to post.

[lechatnoir]

'Once we had two children, even with government rebates, the cost of child care within the inner suburbs of Sydney was more than my wife's salary (after tax) so it was quickly apparent she was going to work and we had less money as a result.'

 

Surprised by this...did her income push you over a means test limit perhaps and you lost family tax payments as well which tipped the balance ?

 

Yes we were fortunate enough to earn good money but at the time this affected our child care rebates and once we were paying two lots of child care for at least 3 days a week in Glebe (Inner West Sydney) it was just not worth it

[lechatnoir]

I'm intrigued why the standard of living is perceived as "better" my observation is that it's different in many regards but the variety of everything, access to more and more varied opportunities even a variation in weather offers a great standard of living.

 

It isn't easy to say better because there are so many considerations, but we have a 5 bedroom house in a good suburb close to Brisbane, our kids have an outdoor lifestyle, they go to a very good school without needing a bankers salary. The fresh food is very good, our diet has a lot of seafood and fruit and vegetables.

 

In the long term future I do worry that Australia can be a very limited environment, there are only 2 maybe 3 genuinely renowned universities and there is an inherent culture of sexism, racism and a particularly poor view of women that really need to be brought in line with the modern world. The 'Aussie bloke' ideology and mentally is quite embarrassing.

But then i remember the faceless town centres in England, the chavs, the racism that also exists - so there's no real winners and losers.

 

The thing for me is that i don't identify with Australian culture and persona, and despite having citizenship I don't say I am an Australian.

Edited September 8, 2014 by lechatnoir

[akiralx]

In the long term future I do worry that Australia can be a very limited environment, there are only 2 maybe 3 genuinely renowned universities and there is an inherent culture of sexism, racism and a particularly poor view of women that really need to be brought in line with the modern world. The 'Aussie bloke' ideology and mentally is quite embarrassing.

But then i remember the faceless town centres in England, the chavs, the racism that also exists - so there's no real winners and losers.

 

The thing for me is that i don't identify with Australian culture and persona, and despite having citizenship I don't say I am an Australian.

 

Yes, this is my only real issue with the country - I have been here for 5 years and while everyone is pleasant, I have no Australian friendships. It's just an alien culture to me. I have my citizenship ceremony in 2 weeks but I would never consider myself Australian at all.

[Marisawright]

I reckon this thread should be made sticky and compulsory reading for all would-be migrants, because it presents a very fair, balanced and accurate view of life in Australia today.

 

The two things which stand out for me are the job opportunities (from 1985 when I arrived, right through till 2010, I could cherry pick my jobs - but no longer) and the friendship issue.

[MARYROSE02]

I'm on my second stint in Sydney and this one has been much more succesful in terms of making friends, and with my parents no longer here, I no longer have that emotional 'tug' back to England.

 

I 'push' myself all the time to speak to people. Just yesterday, I got talking to a guy who I've seen in my local cafe for months without ever speaking to him. It was my neighbour's cat walking past the cafe that sparked our conversation.

 

My first time in Surry Hills, i used to go in the same pubs, but I never spoke to the bar staff, never asked them their names, never introduced myself. Now, I go into the same pubs, and we know each other. I've made friends in some of the pubs too. I'm still close to people I worked with in the 90's, with friendships that have survived my going back to the UK for twelve years. I'm going out with some of them on Sat night for a 60's show.

 

I have lost contact with most of my friends in the UK, other than a couple from childhood, and even with them it's not much more than Facebook or texts. The trouble is, I've found that in making the move here, I've 'Crossed the Rubicon' and, whilst some of my views are the same, now I'm thinking 'Aussie' rather than 'Pommie'. In fact, I just 'live' here now and it's been a long, long time since I compared things here to the UK. In the cafe today, Aussie bloke came in and said to cafe owner, 'nice to see the sun again.' I said, 'Yes, back to Pommie weather again after all that nasty Sydney rain!' 'Yeah, right' he said. Aussies just 'live' here too. It's stating the obvious, but that is what we all aspire to!

[lechatnoir]

It's also been the only time in the last 7 years that British people are going back the the UK and everyone is not calling them 'completely mad'. There's definitely a change in the air now that the UK is getting back on its feet.

[Harpodom]

It's also been the only time in the last 7 years that British people are going back the the UK and everyone is not calling them 'completely mad'. There's definitely a change in the air now that the UK is getting back on its feet.

I'm surprised by that TBH chat.

 

What with the inexorable rise of UKIP, I thought there was a rising tide of 'the country's gone to the dogs.....bloody immigrunts [sic]' type of response?

[lechatnoir]

Guess it's who you know. I know of quite a few people who found the job market too unfavourable and saw it as an opportunity to go back to the UK. I don't think they were making a decision based on UKIP or current politics.

[Harpodom]

Guess it's who you know. I know of quite a few people who found the job market too unfavourable and saw it as an opportunity to go back to the UK. I don't think they were making a decision based on UKIP or current politics.

That's good to hear. Maybe I've just been spending too much time on here!

[fish.01]

 

It isn't easy to say better because there are so many considerations, but we have a 5 bedroom house in a good suburb close to Brisbane, our kids have an outdoor lifestyle, they go to a very good school without needing a bankers salary. The fresh food is very good, our diet has a lot of seafood and fruit and vegetables.

 

In the long term future I do worry that Australia can be a very limited environment, there are only 2 maybe 3 genuinely renowned universities and there is an inherent culture of sexism, racism and a particularly poor view of women that really need to be brought in line with the modern world. The 'Aussie bloke' ideology and mentally is quite embarrassing.

But then i remember the faceless town centres in England, the chavs, the racism that also exists - so there's no real winners and losers.

 

The thing for me is that i don't identify with Australian culture and persona, and despite having citizenship I don't say I am an Australian.

 

Yes, I think the benefit of being raised in Australia is that you realise there are many Australian personas with a significant chunk of people in each. You also know where to find each group; their history, worth and place in the country; and have many contacts with the people who suit you best. Just like living in the UK you often tend to view the identity of the country through the prism of your own group, and know how to avoid the ones you don't wish to spend much time with.

 

Observing on here for a long while I see people who in my mind clearly don't have the same groupings of Australia in their head as I do and it must be isolating to think that your group doesn't exist in significant numbers, even if it does. Though some undoubtedly is, I don't think all disconnect is actual cultural difference, more just not knowing the different cultural opportunities and identities available under the banner of being Australian. Of course your home countries media sets in your mind what an Australian is before you come as well so if the types you meet where you live and work, or tv personalities, reinforce that stereotype it must be hard to broaden it. Looking at the narrowing tabloid media in Australia it is not surprising either.

Edited September 9, 2014 by fish.01