Starting over at 34 - Sydney or London???

[Guest bellyboo]

Hi everyone,

Well I've been hanging around this site for days now, reading bits and bobs and I've finally worked up the courage to...ask complete strangers for advice via an anonymous site So here goes:

 

I'm a mid thirties Australian female living in mainland Europe with my fiancé. We were due to return to Aus in Feb very early next year and get married. Things took a nasty turn a few months ago and we are now splitting up. His job is here, so he won't be leaving, and it is up to me to make the next move in my life. Option 1 - go back to family and friends in Aus, get a job, carry on living life and get over the breakup in the comfort of familiarity, sun, and a guaranteed job . Option 2 - take a risk, move to London, try and get a job, a flat, new friends etc etc - basically a new life from scratch.

 

Why am I in a quandary? Well, because for the past 2 years living in Europe I have travelled extensively, experienced new cultures, started to learn a new language, learnt about real seasons and the magic of a white christmas, and have even learnt to run in snow by embracing the Dutch saying of "there's no such thing as bad weather, just bad clothing". However I've also been homesick, had culture shock, have realised I hate the lack of sun/light in winter more than anything, and have sometimes struggled to find work due to lack of the local language. To top it all off - I can relate to a lot of posts on here about dissatisfaction with living in Australia, and am myself very disgusted and disappointed with the emerging levels of racism and violence, and worry that going back straight away will also result in the "oh crap, now I'm back - so now what"? We have a great group of friends here, a lot Aussie, most away for the same amount of time (around 2 years) and nearly all of them are reconsidering returning to Aus for at least another 5 years - if at all.

 

However the flipside of the coin is - moving to London is a big risk - it will be socially isolating as I don't know a soul and am leaving everything behind (really everything -even my dog, as I don't think I will find a place looking like crazy dog lady), it seems very expensive, I would have to flatshare after 6 years of building a home, it seems very hard to make friends, to get a job, to have a decent standard of living etc etc - and it will be the middle of winter when usually people are at their lowest ebb.

Believe it or not my question is not about relationships - these things happen and you just have to deal with them :err:, but I am asking those that have lived in both the UK and Aus if you think London is worth taking a risk on and moving to, or in your experience it can be a hard place to live when you are emotionally vulnerable, and it would be better to go back to Aus where I know I can get a good job, have someone to go out with on a Friday night, and at least get to end winter early and rediscover paddle boarding on the harbour (I'm from Syd) before work ....

 

I have read a few threads that really seem to convince me to take a chance, pack it all in and just go to London and see what happens, but then I read others about how hard it is to live there, how crappy the rental housing situation is, blah blah. For me, now that I am going to be on my own for the firs time in 6 years, financial security is going to be paramount, and I can only command around 35-40k in London (according to recruiters) however was on much more than that at my last job in Aus.

 

Is London worth the risk at my age? Is Australia really that bad??

[Guest Guest26012]

Hi! I can't give you any advice about London because I haven't lived there, only visited in my forty odd years in the uk! It's not a place I would ever have chosen to live but that's because I'm a northern girl! Is Australia that bad you ask? You can't believe all that you read on a public forum! Some are happy in oz and some aren't, it's as simple as that! If people are unhappy here then they tend to have a negative view of the place, and that's understandable! Perth, I can't speak for other states, is expensive and the rental market is competitive to say the least but in my view if you are happy somewhere then you learn to live with the difficulties! I'm sure you will get lots of good advice on here! My view on your situation is that it's really up to you in the end! I think any relocation when you are emotionally vulnerable is risky to be honest! I wish you luck!

[fourcorners]

Why London?

 

There is so much more to the British Isles than London. Have you researched whether you can get work outside of London? I would say (going on what friends tell me) that London is expensive, but wages are higher there to compensate for that and I know a lot of people earning less than your stated projected salary who manage just fine there. Outside of London, I know single people coping very well on 24k, as living costs are much cheaper elsewhere.

 

It does depend whether you want city living, or somewhere with a bit more space to breathe. I lived in Devon and Cornwall and to me they're the best part of the UK, and I found it very easy to make friends as my OH worked away a huge amount. As long as you've got a couple of hobbies or prepared to learn something new, you would be making friends in no time. It would also be easier to take your dog with you outside of London. I have found rentals in Australia to be much more anti-dog than any I lived in in the UK. We're renting out a house in the UK and whilst it says no pets on the letting ad, if someone came along with a well behaved dog we would let them rent it no problem.

 

You seem to be talking like you're old, 34 is not old! And your sentence: "oh crap, now I'm back - so now what"?, suggests that you're probably not ready to go home just yet.

[Dublin4]

If you like the beach.....than it's Sydney!!!!! If you like everything else, than it's London!!!!! Come-on, do you really even need to ask! London gets a bajajillion visitors a year for a reason! Sydney...........Meh

[fizzybangs]

My first question is why Sydney or London because you say that you have friends where you are and it sounds like you need them at the moment. I also get the impression that you want to see much more yet before returning and it is a heck of a long way to come back and then change your mind - and expensive. Jobs here are not easy to come by at the moment as the unemployment rate is rising. In London you wouldn't need a car but I wouldn't say it is the best place to live in Britain! Yes the West country is lovely but the wages are low in Devon and Cornwall. You do not say what type of work you do but my daughter arranged an interview for a job before she even reached London and another friend who has just returned to Edinburgh also had a job interview arranged for two days after arrival from Brisbane after 4 years here. You could start looking from wherever you are for a job. Another 34 year girl I know arrived back from Australia to Dublin and then got a job in the middle of England and moved there. Expand your horizons in Britain if you decide to go there and look for a job first and if something interests you check for photos and info on the web to get an idea of the area or ask other Poms on here about the area. Also check the rental prices on the web and flat share costs.

[Paul1Perth]

Is London worth the risk at my age? Is Australia really that bad??

 

I think if you are basing your latest views about Aus on a lot of the posts on here, where a lot of people have polarised views, one way or the other, you might think that Aus has changed from what you remember into a riot strewn, bigoted, racially intolerant nation. We've been here 20 years and find that it's not changed much at all, apart from a lot more people coming to live in Perth. Still love it to bits.

 

I lived and worked in London for a couple of years and being from the North of England found it can be one of the most lonely places and hard to meet people. Folks down there always appeared to be in a hurry and didn't like speaking to strangers. Get on the tube and everyone (this is back in the mid 80's) had their nose in the paper or staring at their filofax like it was the most important thing in the world. I guess you can swap the filofax with mobile phone now. Nobody spoke and it was almost like they were afraid to make eye contact with anyone.

 

In the North of England you can (or could then) get on a bus or train and someone would pass the time of day and have a laugh. Might be the same problem with the mobile phone "up North" though now tbh.

 

Being a bloke too should have made it easier to get to know people. At least we can go in a pub on our own without feeling too self conscious and try and chat to people.

 

I'm in a different situation to you as I came out here with my wife and 2 year old and couldn't have picked a better place for us to settle and brig up a family.

 

You are a lot younger, single, and have time on your side for a while. Might be your "last chance" at 34 I suppose so if you don't like London or wherever you choose you can always come back home then. Don't know what the job situation will be like, sounds a bit dire from this side of the pond but you never know.

 

After New Year the UK can be a bit depressing too. Weathers crap, no-one has much money as they overspent at Christmas and the credit cards need paying back, pubs aren't as lively, a lot are saving up for the couple of weeks in the sun in Spain or wherever. I could think of a lot nicer places to be.

[flag of convenience]

Contary to other experiences I found London a very easy place to meet folk once over the initial hurdles. The English can at times be a little difficult until they warm to you but London is perhaps the most cosmopolitan city in the world. You'll meet folk from everywhere. Also a huge Aussie/Kiwi/Saffie contingent, but sadly usually younger than yourself.

 

 

You are in that part of the world so i'd go for it. Experience over money any day. Sydney will always be there. Australia can seem a little stiffling after Europe.You are perhaps a big city type of person,hence other parts of UK may not be what you are seeking.

 

I've lived in Netherlands but a long time ago. Amsterdam was a cool place at the time. Quite a lot of changes over the years though.....Go well and do what feels right for you.

[Guest guest74886]

Hi everyone,

Well I've been hanging around this site for days now, reading bits and bobs and I've finally worked up the courage to...ask complete strangers for advice via an anonymous site So here goes:

 

I'm a mid thirties Australian female living in mainland Europe with my fiancé. We were due to return to Aus in Feb very early next year and get married. Things took a nasty turn a few months ago and we are now splitting up. His job is here, so he won't be leaving, and it is up to me to make the next move in my life. Option 1 - go back to family and friends in Aus, get a job, carry on living life and get over the breakup in the comfort of familiarity, sun, and a guaranteed job . Option 2 - take a risk, move to London, try and get a job, a flat, new friends etc etc - basically a new life from scratch.

 

Why am I in a quandary? Well, because for the past 2 years living in Europe I have travelled extensively, experienced new cultures, started to learn a new language, learnt about real seasons and the magic of a white christmas, and have even learnt to run in snow by embracing the Dutch saying of "there's no such thing as bad weather, just bad clothing". However I've also been homesick, had culture shock, have realised I hate the lack of sun/light in winter more than anything, and have sometimes struggled to find work due to lack of the local language. To top it all off - I can relate to a lot of posts on here about dissatisfaction with living in Australia, and am myself very disgusted and disappointed with the emerging levels of racism and violence, and worry that going back straight away will also result in the "oh crap, now I'm back - so now what"? We have a great group of friends here, a lot Aussie, most away for the same amount of time (around 2 years) and nearly all of them are reconsidering returning to Aus for at least another 5 years - if at all.

 

However the flipside of the coin is - moving to London is a big risk - it will be socially isolating as I don't know a soul and am leaving everything behind (really everything -even my dog, as I don't think I will find a place looking like crazy dog lady), it seems very expensive, I would have to flatshare after 6 years of building a home, it seems very hard to make friends, to get a job, to have a decent standard of living etc etc - and it will be the middle of winter when usually people are at their lowest ebb.

Believe it or not my question is not about relationships - these things happen and you just have to deal with them :err:, but I am asking those that have lived in both the UK and Aus if you think London is worth taking a risk on and moving to, or in your experience it can be a hard place to live when you are emotionally vulnerable, and it would be better to go back to Aus where I know I can get a good job, have someone to go out with on a Friday night, and at least get to end winter early and rediscover paddle boarding on the harbour (I'm from Syd) before work ....

 

I have read a few threads that really seem to convince me to take a chance, pack it all in and just go to London and see what happens, but then I read others about how hard it is to live there, how crappy the rental housing situation is, blah blah. For me, now that I am going to be on my own for the firs time in 6 years, financial security is going to be paramount, and I can only command around 35-40k in London (according to recruiters) however was on much more than that at my last job in Aus.

 

Is London worth the risk at my age? Is Australia really that bad??

 

I agree to a large extent with the other posts on here but I would just say that London is just so much bigger than Sydney and you may find it a bit isolating as you tend to just live somewhere and commute back and forth with outings after work with people you work with because meeting up other than through work means so much travel for people at other times.

Finding somewhere decent to live in a decent area is always a challenge in London, I think London has more areas which are iffy to live in than many other cities, I would really suggest going over for a week and wandering around and catching up with some other Aussies as a means of finding out how it is working for them, there are some real issues about working in London, it can be surprising how much money it takes to live comfortably and safely in London and having to commute at 7:30 in the morning when its still freezing and half light and then come home in the dark at 5:30 when its freezing again takes the gloss off things.

I do feel that London works better than here for entertainment but it is expensive and unless you are living centrally can be a drag to get to and back from, I always felt that London was for young people who wanted to get a career started and then use it for a springboard to a good job outside London but now for a lot of people its the only place where they can get a job so they live way out and spend a long time commuting or live there in tiny studio flats for 5 days /4 nights so that has had a knock on affect on accommodation availability.

I think if you go across for a week and do some journeys at rush hour and have a look at some accommodation the decision will very quickly be made for you.

Living in sleepy Brisbane I do think it is much less of a crime hotspot with far less aggression than what I remember in London when I left in '05 and the racism was much more palpable than here, but I think the difference was that there was far less tolerance of it than I feel there is here, which is what jars on people who have come from that much more 'politically correct ' strata of London life.

 

The expectations of employers for a salary of 40k in London will, I think, be much greater than in Aus, one of my friends in the Uk, who admittedly is on more than that, but he feels like the firm think they own him, he is often working 7 days a week with his working day often being 14 hours and because of the shortage of jobs he just as to put up with it and that is working for a 'not for profit'!:xmas23:

Edited December 5, 2012 by guest74886

[Guest bellyboo]

Thanks everyone for replying; I really appreciate you taking the time! I know Sydney and London are like apples and oranges so impossible to compare for lifestyle or weather - but as I want to meet new people and live in a city (for now), I think they can be compared on livability standards like transport, crime, weekly expenses, social interactions etc etc. I should also mention I have an EU passport via my father ( a lovely thing to have!) Having said that, you've given me food for thought and I will look outside London to get a rounded view of what's out there. Reading all your advice yes I guess it did become clear to me that I'm not quite ready to go home - someone hit the nail on the head "it's a long way to come back if you regret it" - and even if it doesn't work out, I will have the experience of having actually given it a shot, and not just let it become a regret. So thanks all - now where is the forum I can go to get relationship advice hehe....

[Guest Bazinga]

Thanks everyone for replying; I really appreciate you taking the time! I know Sydney and London are like apples and oranges so impossible to compare for lifestyle or weather - but as I want to meet new people and live in a city (for now), I think they can be compared on livability standards like transport, crime, weekly expenses, social interactions etc etc. I should also mention I have an EU passport via my father ( a lovely thing to have!) Having said that, you've give

n me food for thought and I will look outside London to get a rounded view of what's out there. Reading all your advice yes I guess it did become clear to me that I'm not quite ready to go home - someone hit the nail on the head "it's a long way to come back if you regret it" - and even if it doesn't work out, I will have the experience of having actually given it a shot, and not just let it become a regret. So thanks all - now where is the forum I can go to get relationship advice hehe....

 

Have a look at an area of North London called Harringay or known as The ladder, not to be confused with Haringey. Great community and close to transport & lots of green spaces and excellent pubs. Have a look at the website 'HarringayOnline'

[nicolac34]

From your posts I think you need to give London a shot. I lived there 8 years before we came out to Perth and it really is a great City to live in when you are young free and single. There is just so much going on, so many things you can get involved with, you'll never be bored! £35-40k in London isn't a bad wage, it's roughly what I was on before we came here and we managed just fine to have a very nice lifestyle.

 

Going back to housesharing is a scary prospect if you've been a couple for a while, but just think of it as a temporary step until you're sure you want to be there. You'll also meet new people and they'll help you settle in (if you choose the right housemates!) and maybe even introduce you to some other people - widing your social sphere that way. Once you know your income, know the areas (there are SO many to choose from!!) then you'll know if you want to go out there and rent your own place.

 

Australia will always be here, it's not going anywhere, so go enjoy London whilst you've got the excuse!

 

*note to say that I like Australia and we'll be here a while, but in the end we always see ourselves back in the UK.

[flag of convenience]

Think about a house share and you can pull out if its not for you at little notice. London is a great city,very tolerant and open to all ways of life, but the cost has likely impacted on some of the diversity of previous times.

 

I'd certainly give it a whirl and who knows where you may end up? Let alone the experiences. I used to say a month in London would equate a year in OZ in things happening. Especially on the social scale.

[LojaChica]

Life Is A Journey............Not A Destination!

 

[Perthbum]

I think if you are basing your latest views about Aus on a lot of the posts on here, where a lot of people have polarised views, one way or the other, you might think that Aus has changed from what you remember into a riot strewn, bigoted, racially intolerant nation. We've been here 20 years and find that it's not changed much at all, apart from a lot more people coming to live in Perth. Still love it to bits.

 

I lived and worked in London for a couple of years and being from the North of England found it can be one of the most lonely places and hard to meet people. Folks down there always appeared to be in a hurry and didn't like speaking to strangers. Get on the tube and everyone (this is back in the mid 80's) had their nose in the paper or staring at their filofax like it was the most important thing in the world. I guess you can swap the filofax with mobile phone now. Nobody spoke and it was almost like they were afraid to make eye contact with anyone.

 

In the North of England you can (or could then) get on a bus or train and someone would pass the time of day and have a laugh. Might be the same problem with the mobile phone "up North" though now tbh.

 

Being a bloke too should have made it easier to get to know people. At least we can go in a pub on our own without feeling too self conscious and try and chat to people.

 

I'm in a different situation to you as I came out here with my wife and 2 year old and couldn't have picked a better place for us to settle and brig up a family.

 

You are a lot younger, single, and have time on your side for a while. Might be your "last chance" at 34 I suppose so if you don't like London or wherever you choose you can always come back home then. Don't know what the job situation will be like, sounds a bit dire from this side of the pond but you never know.

 

After New Year the UK can be a bit depressing too. Weathers crap, no-one has much money as they overspent at Christmas and the credit cards need paying back, pubs aren't as lively, a lot are saving up for the couple of weeks in the sun in Spain or wherever. I could think of a lot nicer places to be.

Love your last-sentence, could that not be the world over and not just the UK, fir some it might seem crap for a short while after the buzz on Xmas and the new year, after a great couple of weeks it s only natural to feel a bit down, and the majority of the UK population do not seek Spain or Greece these days they prefer winter holidays or stay at him and discover what a brilliant place the UK is but forgot to look.

[Guest Guest26012]

Tell that to my mum pb! She's in the uk and whinges constantly about how depressing uk is after Xmas! She's 80 though so I put up with it lol!

[Perthbum]

Tell that to my mum pb! She's in the uk and whinges constantly about how depressing uk is after Xmas! She's 80 though so I put up with it lol!

Mate the same goes fir the older folk in oz moaning how hot it is.

[Guest Guest26012]

Mate the same goes fir the older folk in oz moaning how hot it is.

 

:hug:

[flag of convenience]

Tell that to my mum pb! She's in the uk and whinges constantly about how depressing uk is after Xmas! She's 80 though so I put up with it lol!

 

She's earned her right to whinge.....

[skippy79]

If you were moving to Oz with your boyfriend before you broke up, surely there was something appealing to you to want to move back.... I would keep with the plan and move back to family and friends and start over again there, but hey, thats me :wacko:........

I would worry about racism, as holland is probably worse than oz ( lived there for 9 yrs ), the things that have happened, riotting and the french tram girl are not normal things... there are plenty of things like that in holland ( see the referee that died last weekend)

 

good luck with your choice!!

[Quoll]

I'd say move to London - try it for size. It'll be a new experience and if you like it, you win and if you don't like it then move on. It'd be much harder to go back to Aus, decide you didn't like that then move back to UK/Europe. My son lived in London for a few years when he first came to UK, picked up a very nice young professionals flat share and seemed to have a rollicking social life - mostly through work, gym and his volunteering. But, as the others have said, there is more to England than London and you may find work elsewhere but really, for an Aussie, nowhere is debilitatingly far from anywhere else here.

 

I was having this sort of chat with my son the other day - he's been on his "gap year" for 10 years now and we were talking about his possible return to Australia at some point and he basically said that after his last visit back a couple of years ago he decided that it really was too boring for him - and after his experience living in London with the capacity for European and wider world holidays he just didn't want to go back to the small pond. I was surprised as he had always said he hoped his kids would have n Aussie childhood like he did but he and his wife chose their house in London to be near good schools.

 

Looks to me like you have nothing to lose by giving it a go

[Paul1Perth]

Love your last-sentence, could that not be the world over and not just the UK, fir some it might seem crap for a short while after the buzz on Xmas and the new year, after a great couple of weeks it s only natural to feel a bit down, and the majority of the UK population do not seek Spain or Greece these days they prefer winter holidays or stay at him and discover what a brilliant place the UK is but forgot to look.

 

No it's not like that in Perth after Christmas at all. It's not grey, cloudy and cold, a lot of holidaymakers are here, it just carries on.

 

I would imagine it might be like the UK in places with the same sort of climate, where people go out at Christmas and overspend, where it is dark when you go to work, dark when you come home, you have to scrape the ice of the car before you go to work and hope it starts, then sit in a traffic jam for an hour to get there.

[Flathead]

 

I would imagine it might be like the UK in places with the same sort of climate, where people go out at Christmas and overspend, where it is dark when you go to work, dark when you come home, you have to scrape the ice of the car before you go to work and hope it starts, then sit in a traffic jam for an hour to get there.

Sounds Just like Brisbane.....just substitute rain and hail for the ice

[fourcorners]

No it's not like that in Perth after Christmas at all. It's not grey, cloudy and cold, a lot of holidaymakers are here, it just carries on.

 

I would imagine it might be like the UK in places with the same sort of climate, where people go out at Christmas and overspend, where it is dark when you go to work, dark when you come home, you have to scrape the ice of the car before you go to work and hope it starts, then sit in a traffic jam for an hour to get there.

 

Well when I lived in the UK up until last year I never overspent at Christmas, never even touched my credit card. I also never went to work in the dark in winter, as down in Cornwall it was always light when I set off at 8.30am on my 15 minute journey. Yes I did have to scrape ice off but that's no big deal. After Christmas it was nice as the days start getting longer, sales are on in the shops, and I quite enjoyed going for walks in the snow! I loved winter as it was a good excuse to light the fire and cook lovely stews and curries.

 

You make it out to be so doom and gloom but for many the reality is quite different. I am dreading summer here far more than I ever dreaded winter in the UK.

[Rupert]

I moved to London as a 25 year old singleton (from north UK) thinking I would stay for a couple of years and finally left 15 years later or thereabouts. I moved to Sydney as half of a couple when I was 40. I would say up front that I cannot compare the cities but love them both and have never felt the need to weigh one up versus the other.

 

To your predicament, I think if you were emotionally needing support then returning to the bosom of family would be the best thing to do. But I am not sure that is you, you sound like you are emotionally stable and are merely facing a dilemma. So on that basis, I think I would say give London a go, you seem to have a curiosity about it and it will be easier to do now than going back to australia and coming back again.

 

I also think that London is the *best* place in UK to go as a singleton. :biggrin:

[Surf N Turf]

Hi Bellyboo. Here's my two cents worth. I faced a similar choice at the same age but for different reasons. I was living in Brisbane and facing a pretty severe work burnout and feeling like I'd been single for too long. I decided that a move would shake things up so I spent some time trying to decide whether to head to London or Melbourne. For reasons I can't really remember now I chose London. That choice had both wonderful and very difficult consequences. The good stuff is that I met my partner pretty soon after arriving and we've since had a child. They are truly the two great loves of my life and I'm very grateful to have them.

 

On down side my partner hates Australia and now, as a parent, I'm very happy here and am keen to raise our daughter in OZ. That's an easy sentence to type but an extremely difficult situation to live with. It's caused us both enormous distress as it does other couples on PIO. It's been so hard at times that we've talked about whether we'd have made the same choices if we'd have known how it was going to turn out.

 

All this to say, that at 34 as opposed to 24, it might be worth factoring in any long-term plans for a family and where you might want to be when that happens. Whatever you decide I wish you lots of luck and happiness.