Uk Pensions court case

[mr luvpants]

For those who are interested

BBC NEWS | Business | Court hearing expat pensions case

JOHN

[Mike and Connie]

Thanks for the link John.
It is a serious thing especially with the £ being so weak at the moment. Our only income is from pensions in the UK and since we came here in 2007 the monthly payments have just been on a steady spiral downwards and just now it's the equivalent of a 20-25% drop in income.
It would be nice if the expat UK pensioners were upgraded as the same expat retirees in Europe.
We did know that our pensions would be frozen when we decided to emigrate here but never thought the £ would get so weak.
Mike

[Lanky Lad]

Thanks for the link John.
It is a serious thing especially with the £ being so weak at the moment. Our only income is from pensions in the UK and since we came here in 2007 the monthly payments have just been on a steady spiral downwards and just now it's the equivalent of a 20-25% drop in income.
It would be nice if the expat UK pensioners were upgraded as the same expat retirees in Europe.
We did know that our pensions would be frozen when we decided to emigrate here but never thought the £ would get so weak.
Mike

The Cynical side of me......

England - The Mother of Democracy.
Is not acting democratically towards what is a major part of ( or what was) The Commonwealth. This same country gave British passport rights to a number of ex colonies, such as Pakistan. Yet rejects visa's to Gurka's who are among the most loyal and bravest of the Asian countries associated with the fighing forces of the UK.

The Commonwealth - consists (or consisted) of countries taken by force or default of the "native" populations ability to repel the invader.

I wonder what Turkey did to warrant inclusion in reciprical pensions, apart frrom wiping out most of the Anzacs at Gallopoli - after they obeyed the English commanders!

Not for nothing did Maggie Thatcher watch "Yes Minister" and its follow up "Yes Prime Minister". Which other country takes payments towards a FREE national Health service based on income...then tells you to get private pensions because you can afford it and release funds for the more needy!
Yet thinks nothing of sending upto £8 million to Poland every month in Family Credit payments - an entitlement from the European Treaties with member countries!

These TV idiots really do exist and I can imagine one such moron deciding limiting pension updates is a suitable punishment for walking out on the mother country...forgetting that they are the main reason many..such as me...are in Aussie now!

L.L.

[Gollywobbler]

Hi John

Thanks very much indeed for starting this thread. My two cents worth is below:


www.pension-parity-uk.com - THE I C B PHAS TAKEN THE CASE FOR PENSION PARITY TO THE EUROPEAN COURT OF HUMAN RIGHTS

Tim Otty QC led the team representing the British Pensioners. His address to the Grand Chamber of the ECHR is here:

www.pension-parity-uk.com - NEWS Etc.From many different sources

The decision is expected in March or April 2010. It is a slow process because 17 Judges are involved from at least 15 countries. The campaign has the full support of the Australian Government, following tjhe ECHR Judgement last year which helped British Pensioners in EU countries but excluded all the 525,000 or so British Pensioners (including my mother) who have moved to countries which are outside the EU and do not have reciprocal Social Security Agreements with the UK. Australia does not have a reciprocal SS agreement with the UK. Over half of the British Pensioners affected by this issue are believed to be in Australia.

Go Matilda - Your Gateway to Australia - News

Tim Otty QC has had a very distinguished career. He is one of the youngest ever to take silk when he did, some years ago now, and he is widely regarded as one of the best Human Rights lawyers there is. Fingers crossed that he has managed to convince enough members of the Grand Chamber to get a consensus in favour of the Pensioners.

The British Government has two central arguments:

1. We can't afford it; and
2. The Pensioners knew what the deal was before they left the UK.

The Telegraph argues that the Government can afford it:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/expat/606...injustice.html

The second argument is specious. If the Government's stance has been unlawful then my mother cannot have given a valid and binding consent to an unlawful deal. She is will be 89 in a fortnight and she has no way of knowing whether it is lawful or not. Indeed she will not know that until the Grand Chamber decision is available in 2010.

This issue affects all British Pensioners in Australia or planning to move to Australia, regardless of which visa they hold or which one they are waiting for. The ever vigilant BERIA 410 Group, representing the holders of subclass 410 Retirement visas, is on the case:

BERIA 410 - HOME PAGE & NEWS


Cheers and thanks again

Gill

[Lanky Lad]

The British Government has two central arguments:

1. We can't afford it; and
2. The Pensioners knew what the deal was before they left the UK.

Ignoring the Telegraph article for now....

1. We can't afford it;

Can I use this as a precident if I get involved in a court action that leads to a fine or other ordered payment?
As a kid I was nicked for not having a light on my cycle (now the police dont even turn up in the UK when you report a break in) I was fined £0.10.00p or 10 shillings or todays 50p or AU$1.00!
My poor old mum, had to stand up and say she was looking after four kids, not working, no husband and could not afford to pay. She was ordered to pay in four installments! So the governments first excuse had as already been discounted by the courts with every order to pay by instalements it makes and has already made!

The Labour government made an issue of not being able to afford £31 million to fund a Police pay increase - and within a month was saying £2 billion was available to prop up a failing building society and later others in similar situations!

AND, why can't they afford it...they already took the payments and if the recients had remained in the UK..they would have been paid..which would mean the money WAS avaialble!


2. The Pensioners knew what the deal was before they left the UK.

Laws and Acts of Parliament are in the main evalutionary and amended as deemed required. Tax laws are a perfect example, as they are changed to eliminate creative accounting loop holes.
What today is the law or subject to an act of parliament .... is not what may be the law or terms of an existing Act in 12 months time. And any government office is well aware of this.



What needs explaining - from a country that abhors discrimination of any colour, religion, creed blah blah, is why penions rights were refused because the adoptive country has no reciprical agreements.
The individual was required, nay had no choice but to allow an employer to deduct N.I from income; -ignore opted out for now because 40 years ago it did not exist.
For years now its been possible to transfer money or at the very least issue cheques so making payments was not an issue.

Another issue is why payments appear to made quarterly when the UK payments are - I understand are made monthy or fortnightly. That theoretically means a loss of interest on teh recipient and a gain in interest by not making payments for the pensions office account in the UK.

I will ignore the unfairness of discrimination against mothers who stay home to look after their families - and lose pension credits!

[Gollywobbler]

Hi John

Hi to all the British Parents and other British Pensioners as well.

I have just heard, on the CPV thread, that the Grand Chamber of the EU have reached a Judgement and that it will be handed down tomorrow, Tuesday 16th March 2010.

Home page and reference site for the International Consortium of British Pensioners

The short page below reveals just how badly some of the British Pensioners in Oz were treated by the British Government over the years. Sadly, they are no longer alive.

British Pensions in Australia

"Bung 'em onto a plane bound for Australia and then forget about them," seems to have been the attitude of successive British Governments over the years.

Well. If the British Pensioners win tomorrow, it will convince me - a hardened Euro-sceptic normally - that there is some merit in the European Gravy Train after all.

Fingers crossed, everyone.

Cheers

Gill

[Guest31881]

The decision is due at 11.30am Tuesday in Strasburg (local time). Its taken nearly 7 months for the decision to be reached, let’s hope it a favourable decision.

[mr luvpants]

Thanks Gill. I dont retire for 20 odd years yet but I would like to know what I am getting!

JOHN

[Mongrel]

Thanks Gill. I dont retire for 20 odd years yet but I would like to know what I am getting!

JOHN

Not a lot unless you have 30 years contributins mate

[mr luvpants]

Not a lot unless you have 30 years contributins mate

3 more years to pay then.