Debt advice...

[bongomark]

I am looking to move to Australia as soon as possible, but one of the things slowing me down is the debt I have which I am trying to clear.

 

I have thought about claiming bankruptcy (I know there are some moral issues too), but am concerned that this would affect any visa/sponsorship attempts. Does anyone know what the situation would be if I did?

 

Also if I did claim bankruptcy then I would be probably be able to afford to retrain in a new career that would enable me to get permanent residency in Oz.

 

As always, any advice warmly welcomed and much appreciated....

[Guest hays]

Hi,

I'm pretty certain that its a fresh start when you get into Oz. Your credit rating starts at zero again. As long as you dont own your home, bankruptcy may work for you. I would get in touch with a financial advisor and get them to advise and help you. There is a huge stigma attatched to bankruptcy, but i think thats becoming less now as people from all walks of life are having to take that route. Its not an ideal solution, but if it helps you get where you need to be, then get that advice and see how you feel. Maybe one of the guys who already has their visa will be able to help you more on if it effects an application. I didnt see any questions asking if you were bankrupt when i had a look at one, but cant be sure!

Good luck!

Hays

[Guest oz migration]

Hi

 

Basically you must consider this very seriously and as already mentioned it nowadays very common place and ever increasing.

 

The UK has treaties with Australia in most if not all States and most States work with the the UK in terms of law enforcement.

 

Any bankruptcy order against you in the UK will be recognized in Australia - this will mean for the length of time you are under 'restraint' you cannot step outside of the constraints set to you without breaking the law and then being pursued legally in Australia.

 

Here's a recent article : More trying to rort bankruptcy laws - Business - Business - theage.com.au

[Guest hays]

Just a quick note to add, as long as it's Voluntary Bankruptcy, and not you being made bankrupt by a company you owe money to, it only last's one year. Obviously it gives you a bad credit rating for alot longer, but the bankruptcy itself is generally one year now.

[Guest beverley]

but wouldnt this all be checked when you go through visa process? i thought it was all very strict and they would need to know how much capital you would have left, after all debts are paid. My partner and i are about to start applying as hes an electrician and we are worried that if you owe anything you wouldnt qualify? Also if anyone knows of a good immgration company, could you please advise, looked on internet there are so many and want to make sure we pick a good one?! thanks

[Guest The Mackie's]

Hi we are using ASA Immigration, really helpful and good. Zeta

[Lynandsean]

but wouldnt this all be checked when you go through visa process? i thought it was all very strict and they would need to know how much capital you would have left, after all debts are paid. My partner and i are about to start applying as hes an electrician and we are worried that if you owe anything you wouldnt qualify? Also if anyone knows of a good immgration company, could you please advise, looked on internet there are so many and want to make sure we pick a good one?! thanks

 

They dont ask about your finances at all when you apply for the visa. There is one question on the visa application form where they ask how much you are expecting to take over but I dont think this is relevant in any way - we just took a guess! and nobody on here has mentioned any problems coming back with their answers - some have taken nothing, others lots.

 

As for migration agent, we used Ian Harrop - Registered Australian Migration Agents, UK - Ian Harrop and Associates and they were brilliant!

[Guest oz migration]

Hi

 

For migration this is not a concern as your visa (I presume) is not linked to financial capability it would be a skilled visa ?

 

This should not generate an issue for you other than your debts in the UK can haunt you in Australia unless you 'deal' with them in the UK. Any declared bankruptcy will prevent you owning a house etc and any lavish items in Australia for a period of 12 months - I think !

 

If you need help with any migration matters happy to help, go via our website below.

[Guest tizzy]

Hi i see you are a hertfordshire family. We are too! where are you off to in oz? We are just starting our application journey, agency are calling me tomorrow to start the process! Have you used an agency? If so which one and were they good?

[Guest the-nutters]

Hi, we are new here. We have more or less made the decision to attempt the whole visa process. However, we do not want to waste any time or money unless we know for certain that we will not be disregarded from the start due to problems we had in past with finances. Our main problem is that bankruptcy was filed against us in uk. We are no longer in uk we are in europe. We are not worried about this following us but we need to know that we are not liikely to be prevented entry/visa into Oz as a direct result of this. It is disturbing enough going through this process so it would be awful if any chance to improve our life and move on would be effected as a result. Any help, anyone can give would be great :-) Thanks alot

[Guest The Mackie's]

Hi, we are new here. We have more or less made the decision to attempt the whole visa process. However, we do not want to waste any time or money unless we know for certain that we will not be disregarded from the start due to problems we had in past with finances. Our main problem is that bankruptcy was filed against us in uk. We are no longer in uk we are in europe. We are not worried about this following us but we need to know that we are not liikely to be prevented entry/visa into Oz as a direct result of this. It is disturbing enough going through this process so it would be awful if any chance to improve our life and move on would be effected as a result. Any help, anyone can give would be great :-) Thanks alot

Hi, there is no question on the visa application about your previous finances etc, they ask if you will be bringing any money with you so I wouldn't have thought it would be a problem or stop you getting a visa.

 

I imagine a few people out there just leave their debt in UK and never pay once they get their visa and get into OZ.?? - anyone got an opinion on this?

 

Zeta

[Guest the-nutters]

Thanks for that... Only problem we have now is that we still owe Tax, VAT and NI Contributions in UK. When you do not have enough money to put food on the table everything else takes a backseat. I would estimate that we owe our government around £5,000.00. Does anyone know if a background check is done into tax issues etc? I know there are police checks, which is fine as we have nothing against us but, not sure how we stand on this? As always any help would be gratefully appreciated

[Guest oz migration]

HI

 

You seem to be running away from the problem rather than dealing with it to begin with

and trying to go to another country without money is almost certain to lead to failure !

 

I always say to people that what you come away from, expect to find and wish to work

towards are very important aspects of settling in Australia and determining where you should settle.

 

Your intention to to come to Australia and leave your debt behind, as you owe the Crown (HMIT) and the Government money will be irrelevant as Australia (each State) has Treaties with the UK which will mean you can be pursued in any State in Australia for the recognised debt and could be made bankrupt in Australia which would seriously halt any progress you wish to make and to start a new life.

 

My advice to you is to settle and make an arrangement for the debt and delay your migration until such time as the matter is cleared in one way or another and you have some money - having debt or being an ex bankrupt does not affect your visa but may well affect your credit line in Australia.

 

Kind regards

[Guest the-nutters]

Hi Christopher, We have not and do not intend to run away from the problem. Our parents are prepared to get us upto date with our contributions et,c and obviously we do not wish to move away with any stigma which is likely to follow us around for however knows how long attached to us. We would like to start the long process of applying for visa, and just want to know that we will not be halted at the start as a result of these dues which we intend to pay. We will be declared bankrupts but, we do not believe that this writes off dues to government etc which is why I queried this. My husband is extremely qualified and clever in relation to IT work. As such I would hope that Oz would be the fresh new start that we all want and need :-) We have no interest in returning to UK, yes we have family and friends there but, having now been away for well over a year we have absolutely no desire ever to return, it is not a nice place to live anymore. So, if we do not end up in Oz we will end up somewhere. Just prefer Oz :-) Thanks for taking the time to reply to us. It is appreciated, we will now do our duty and clear our slates so that any chance of a new start can be a fresh one :-)

[Guest millertime]

Oz migration. where do you get your info from? you are incorrect on just about every turn here.

 

First of all going bankrupt in the Uk does NOT follow you to Australia, it does not affect your Australian credit rating at all.

 

The only country where things like this follow you to australia is from New Zealand.

 

Credit in the UK is taken out under different laws and regulations and are not enforced in Australia.

 

now im not saying you should not pay your debts off, but if you didnt and moved to Australia they are very unlikly to track you down. If they did there is not much they can do. if they have partner companies in Australia they may (in rare cases) pass the debt to them but they dont have the Power to enforce it. they can only send you letters, pay you visits etc but cannot enforce the debt. they would pretty much have to accept any offer of settlment you offer.

 

They cant run checks on you, cant garnish your wages, cant affect your australian credit rating.. nothing..

 

this is as good as it gets for them.. also debts are not sold to australia as no one would bother, not worth it.

 

Now.. in regards to debts with the government (tax etc) that is different.. that can be chased and they do have a good working relationship with the Australian counterparts.

 

thanks

[Guest millertime]

Service of Documents Abroad - United Kingdom

Relevant conventions / treaties / agreements

There is no Convention, treaty or other agreement in force between Australia and the

United Kingdom on the service of documents in civil proceedings.

The United Kingdom is a party to the Hague Convention on the Service Abroad of

Judicial and Extra Judicial Documents in Civil and Commercial Matters 1965.

However, Australia has not acceded to the Hague Service Convention.

Process to follow

Private agent

Service by private agent is permitted. Service through an agent (generally a British

lawyer) does not breach United Kingdom law and is not considered by the United

Kingdom Government to be a breach of its sovereignty.

Diplomatic channel

The United Kingdom Government will not accept requests through the diplomatic

channel from another Commonwealth country (including Australia) seeking the

assistance of its authorities in serving documents.

Enforcement of Judgments

The United Kingdom is listed in the Foreign Judgments Regulations 1992, made

under the Foreign Judgments Act 1991. However, Australian litigants should be

aware that there is no treaty or convention between the United Kingdom and Australia

in relation to the recognition or enforcement of judgments in civil matters.

Before obtaining a judgment in Australia for enforcement in the United Kingdom,

Australian litigants should seek legal advice from a legal practitioner familiar with the

requirements for enforcement in the United Kingdom.

[Guest oz migration]

Hi Millertime

 

Don't you just love the know-it-all who will rubbish a thread with their view !

 

Firstly if you take the trouble to read the question thoroughly you will note that my reference is to Crown debt and secondly you are missing the point. If you wish to move overseas for a new start the last thing you want is various debt collectors chasing you and they can, there are many and vary sizable companies with vast resources and intimidation tactics whether a legal enforceable debt or not - it would not be a nice predicament.

 

On most forms pertaining to the question of bankruptcy the question is not specific and very wide IE "have you ever been made bankrupt before" and the untruthful answer to that can be costly - you take a risk on interpretation and you should not be so matter of fact about this issue - it needs to be managed to prevent it becoming an issue downstream !

 

As for quotes of reference as you shown where here is a counter one for you

 

 

<FONT color=red>Where property belonging to the insolvent is situated in a country not designated under the provisions of section 426(11) (see paragraph 52.15), or where the official receiver seeks to implement other provisions of the Act in such a country, he should endeavor to do so initially by normal correspondence with the parties concerned. If he receives no response, or is advised that the relevant asset will not be surrendered or information supplied, he may, especially in relation to land, be able to obtain assistance through local diplomatic links. Such an approach should always be made through the Foreign and Commonwealth Office, King Charles Street, London

 

Just quoting The Hague Convention doesn't protect you this is not Human Rights but Credit and legal aspect of entering into Bankruptcy and its ramifications or credit debt. You must seek professional help and here are details of the experts in the field and within UK and not a person in Australia telling you it will be fine - matters of finance don't just become fine if you run or ignore them. You must manage and take full responsibility to ensure your new start will not be 'darkened' from matters of the past :

 

The Insolvency Service Website (gov site)

Citizens Advice corporate website - Home

 

Kind regards

 

Chris

[calNgary]

ok guys lets call this a day before it gets nasty me thinks!!!!!!

I have read this forum with interest as this and similar questions are asked to me all the time,i too had been led to believe that any debt other than tax is not traceable here and noone will be waiting on your doorstep.I also know of quite a few poms who have run huge credit card debts and similar and had no problems at this end.Personally i would be looking over my shoulder all the time but i do know people who have done this and had no repucussions.

I think the best solution for anyone who does owe lots of money in some shape or form or has been declared bankrupt should speak with a competant agent for advice,most agents wont take you on unless they know you will be ok,,good luck to all you guys,,,

Cal x

[Guest millertime]

Know it all.. you mean someone who knows what they are talking about?

 

there is no need for you to get nasty like that. Ive worked in this industry so I have a insight to how it works. because i dont go along with what you say does not give you the right to have a go.

 

You can search all you like on the net, all the debt forums or sites, you wont find examples of people being forced to pay once they have moved to australia.

 

Ive never said you should skip off and not pay your debts in the uk, but you do need to know your rights when abroad and these debts are not enforceable. They can be chased but that in itself hardly ever happens.

 

Also unlike the UK where debt collectors get away with just about everything, this is not the case in Australia.

 

its hard enough in Australia for debt collectors to chase debts made in australia let alone from overseas. ie they cant call you at work, cant visit your house after 9pm can only contact you 3 times per week at most (in person and via the phone)

 

And they CANNOT state they can do things which they cannot.. as this is a crimminal offence..!

 

And ill say it again. these debts in the uk are under civil law and they cannot be passed to Australia as easy as you think.

 

Think about it. why would some one in aus buy the debt, go the the very expensive legal proces to try and enforce it (when it cant be enforced) then have the person who ran up the debt just up and leave and return to the UK????

 

I also read through the posts.. you state things like there are agreements with all the states and the UK?? where do you get that from? there are NO reciprocal agreements in place between Australia and the UK for the enforement of Civil debts. This is Fact. So why you would state otherwise I dont know..! The UK only has agreements with Germany and Canada. the only country that debts can be chased in Australia is New Zealand.

 

I dont want to argue with you oz migration as you dont really have anything to argue with.

 

thank you.

[Guest Paul EDGE]

Hi

Don't Worry Too Much About Your Uk Finances As They Will Not Affect Your Status In Australia As There Is No Access To Your Credit Files Under The Data Protection Act Out Of The Uk. If You Need Further Help Contact Me And I Will Give You A Call.

[Guest angela and mark]

Hi

 

We declared ourselves bankrupt after our business went into insolvency in 2005 and it was cleared 9 months later - we are now debt free. We used Visa Bureau and were up front with them from the start - it hasn't been a problem and our visas have now been granted. We are going over for a recce next Spring with a view to moving to Queensland permanently in 2009 by which time we will have money saved as we both work full time. It has been hard as we lost our home but we have a fresh start and as they say - what doesn't kill you makes you stronger. So keep going, be honest, be lucky and you will be fine.

 

Good luck

[Guest oz migration]

HI Cal & Millertime (Bankruptcy & Debt)

 

Timely intervention and sorry I have not responded earlier - been very busy !

 

I did not intend or have I been 'nasty' just confrontational which Millertime instigated when instead of a point of view you 'rubbished' my comments - that doesn't leave much choice does it !! ( I have worked with one of Europe's top 3 lawyers over a 3 year period within civil law and at times exposed to criminal law).

 

Now we are going to have to agree to disagree and let people (reading these posts) get professional advice or use the websites I will leave shortly as we have a void of difference in how matters should be handled - you obvious like the cut and run and worry if this becomes a problem because clearly (quote) having the following

 

ie they cant call you at work, cant visit your house after 9pm can only contact you 3 times per week at most (in person and via the phone)

 

is okay considering a large number of people (majoirty) are in their house by 9 PM and being contacted 3 per week every week and you forget also on the mobile phone/text is not my ideal day to look forward too !!

 

Also you say, being regulated in Australia seems to help versus the UK. So I gather you would also put forward the same argument within Real Estate which is HIGHLY regulated and not in the UK. This must mean that it is full of great, ethical, professionals all above reproach (individuals and companies) never using incorrect or underhanded methods - think again and perhaps look up and see what is actually in front of you - you say your in the industry, how can you possibly support such a bunch- its just like saying that the real estate person always has my best interests to heart and is my friend !!!!

 

Presuming that the creditor knows that you are residing within Australia. A creditor can enforce a civil judgment obtained in England and Wales in Australia as a result of the Foreign Judgments (Reciprocal Enforcement) Act 1933 and in Tasmania as a result of the Administration of Justice Act 1920. Whether the creditor would take further action to pursue the matter within Australia is debatable due to the potential cost implications of doing so.

 

As to the civil versus criminal law (treaties etc) - this depends on the extent of your UK issues and if you have breached certain sections, not co-operating with the Receiver, lying under oath all are a criminal offence and can be fined and/or carry a custodial sentence from what was a civil matter.

 

" Creditors of cases where a conviction was obtained under section 361 (accounting records) or cases where a conviction was obtained under section 362 (gambling)".

 

Assets that you have in Australia (if any) will be considered as part of your bankruptcy estate in the UK, although the Official Receiver may encounter problems in selling them if he is not recognized in the foreign jurisdiction as having power to sell them. The trustee may require co-operation from you and, also, he may need to apply for a court order, in foreign country to deal with asset

 

So for the Leeds Building society to have 1,000 pounds (outstanding debt) I doubt they will chase you (but I have been made aware of a debt of 36.00 pounds and the debt collectors - sending letters only). However owing the HSBC 10,000+ they have enormous reach and intimidation tactics and can use their considerable resources to pursue a defaulter/insolvent as they see fit, not forgetting that a Crown debt (Tax, CSA, Student Loan) can also be a Criminal offence and this is also a serious consideration for the offender.

 

As for Debt Recovery Agencies a good size company that is more than capable of reaching out to individuals in Australia Beukhen & Pkhrell for instance (international debt recovery).

 

With that I have said my piece and you yours, so I now leave a few web links of UK based professional organizations that will advise any body with debt issues and considering a move or not as the case maybe.

 

The Enterprise Act 2002 | Payplan

http://www.nationaldebtline.co.uk/

fiac.org.uk

The Insolvency Service Website (gov site)

Citizens Advice corporate website - Home

 

I hope this helps people with this issue and good luck to whatever you decide to do.

 

Kind regards

 

Chris

[Guest JoanneHattersley]

Cal`s right !

 

Lets leave this thread and lock it up BEFORE it turns nasty

[calNgary]

If you care to re read my post i never said anyone had been nasty ,i asked if we could please stop this thread BEFORE IT GOT NASTY !!! as Jo can clearly understand reading by her post .

thankyou

Cal x

[Guest dwaldron]

I had a business that went bust in 2000 in Australia and debt collectors came a'knockin in the UK so I have no reason to think that the reverse wouldn't happen. I think the key thing is to start with a clean slate because if you need to come back to the UK for some reason then you don't want to have problems with opening bank accounts, renting a property etc.