Regional Australia - RSMS 119/857

[Irishstew]

Hi all,

This is my first post so I hope I have it in the correct part of the forum.

As far as we know the only way we can get a VISA is via an RSMS 119/857

My first questions is -

On the DIAC site the Central Coast NSW seems to be considered regional for an RSMS visa, however this does not seem to the case for other VISA’s - can this be correct?

My Second Question

My Diplomas are not equivalent to Australia Diplomas, so therefore my wife (a teacher) will be the main applicant. However, my wife works 18.75hrs a week and therefore cannot get a skilled VISA as she needs to work at least 20hrs pw. Am I right in saying that this is irrelevant with an RSMS VISA as experience is not considered?

Your help on this would be much appreciated.

Thanks

IrishStew

[Em Batch]

Hi Irishstew,

Welcome to POI by the way :-)

I am sorry, but I can't help you with your query but I am sure someone will come along soon enough to give you some advice ! It's a great site so sit tight and someone will come by.

Good luck

Emma

[Irishstew]

Hi Emma,
Thanks for the encouragement - it can be very frustrating when you have all these questions and no-one seems to know the answers, even agents!!!
This does seem to be a good site - I live in hope!
Thanks again,
Irishstew

[Gollywobbler]

Hello IrishStew

Welcome to Poms in Oz.

Leaving your wife aside for the moment, what is your own occupation, please, and how old are you? Please choose from the list below:

A-Z Occupations List - Australian Skills Recognition Information

What Diplomas do you hold, please? Have you checked the Country Education Profile for the Republic of Ireland yourself or are you relying on a migration agent?

Which area of Oz do you hope to move to?

I am querying all this because getting an RSMS visa is not as simple as wanting one. The Dept of Ed in the relevant State tends to be the main employer of teachers. The Dept of Eds in all 8 States & Territories have different Policies from each other about what they will and won't do, so getting employer sponsorship for an RSMS visa is not necessarily easy.

The NT and QLD both tend to insist that migrant teachers start on temporary subclass 457 visas for a couple of terms at least because their experience is that the NT and the north of QLD has been too much of a culture shock for many a migrant teacher in the past.

WA tried the idea of the 457 visa but found it was not satisfactory. They need lots of teachers and having to do the whole employer rigmarole for each and every one of them was daft so they have been negotiating with DIAC to get a Labour Agreement into place instead. WA are particularly worried because apparently there has been some sort of error involving the pensions for teachers in WA. The result of the error is that many of the teachers are eligible for early retirement and several have notified the WA Dept of Ed that they intend to take early retirement. The Labour Agreement seems to be taking forever - I suspect they always do. They are between a rock and a hard place according to the information which has been relayed to me!

WA's woes have not ended there, either! They desperately need a Maths teacher for the secondary school in Karratha, 1,500kms north of Perth. They offered the job to a PiO member and offered him immediate PR on an RSMS visa. He then investigated the cost of living in Karratha, where a huge LNG plant is being built just down the road. There has been a huge influx of construction workers, engineers etc and the upshot is that to rent a 4 x 2 house in Karratha costs $1,200 a week. The same property would cost $400 a week in Perth Metro. The LNG people are being paid megabucks so they can afford mega rents. A teacher can't. WA Dept of Ed does not own a teacher's house in Karratha and its red tape is such that it can't pay the rent on behalf of the PiO chap. He can't afford to go to Karratha in the circs. The last I heard from him, stalemate has occurred. If they subsidise the rent for one teacher, all the others will demand the same thing and so on.

The NT are better organised! They do own teachers' houses in their own remote areas!

The number of hours a week that your wife has been working would not be an issue with a visa for a teacher who is willing to work in Regional Oz. I think other issues (hopefully not similar to the situation in Karratha) could cause problems elsewhere.

You really need to sound out the Dept of Ed in the relevant area if you have any particular part of Australia in mind, I suspect.

The RSMS visa can be used in most parts of Australia. It is all done according to postcodes, which is a pain:

Eligible postcodes for the Regional Subclass 457 programme and Regional Sponsored Migration Scheme

If the postcode is on the list above, the area is OK for an RSMS visa. The postcodes mean nothing to me. I live in the UK. You need to work it all out with the aid of AusPost (not that DIAC provide a useful link on their website!) It is here:

Australia Post - Postcode Search

The other thing you need is Google Maps at the ready! You also need the Dept of Ed website for the relevant State because with a bit of delving in that you can usually find out where all the schools are in the areas that would be OK for an RSMS visa.

It turns into a fiddly exercise but a migration agent will not do it for you. I'd suggest phoning the Dept of Ed in the relevant State.

Hence I am wondering whether it wouldn't be easier to try to do this via you?

Cheers

Gill


Regional Sponsored Migration Scheme (Subclass 119/857)

[Irishstew]

Hi Gill,
Thanks for your reply. Your answers are always very comprehensive and detailed. It’s great to have such expertise on this forum.

Both my wife and I are 37. For VISA purposes I am an Office Manager. We were trying to get state sponsored in SA. We had been advised by an agent that my qualifications were OK. I have a BTEC ND in business studies and a Diploma in Supervisory Management. I then applied for skills assessment via VETASSESS. In the mean time I did my IELTS to bring my points up to 100. We subsequently received a NEGATIVE from Vetassess. In light of this I know of no other route for myself to get a VISA.

My wife is a primary trained teacher with a specialism in nursery. She is now employed in the local nursery as the teacher in charge. However, as the Nursery does not offer full times places my wife works 18.75hrs (but does about 6hrs unpaid and unrecognised overtime!).

As the RSMS is the only VISA where less than 20hrs does not seem to matter, we felt this was our only route. We do know that it is not an easy option.

We will speak to the education departments and see where we go from there. We are reasonably open minded as to where we go as long as it not totally isolated (not an easy mix with an RSMS).

Thanks for your kind help so far.

IrishStew

[Gollywobbler]

Hi IrishStew

Thanks for explaining the situation.

There is a simple solution to your qualifications problem.

Orion Training and Performance Management | Brisbane Training and Managment

http://www.otpm.com.au/files/courses...nistration.pdf

Please click on both links above. The Diploma in Business Administration, BSB 50407, is tailored towards Office Managers. You do the whole thing on line at home in your spare time. Most people complete it within 2-3 months because they already know most of the course content.

I am told that you need to phone Orion to get the ball rolling. Do not rely on e-mail for the initial contact because they receive thousands of enquiries. I am told that the lady to contact is the CEO, Mrs Suzanne Marwell. Please see this thread:

http://www.pomsinoz.com/forum/migrat...3291-11-a.html

Team Rennolds has trodden the same path recently and he has posted a lot of useful information on the thread above.

Depending on your exact work experience, keep a close eye on the Australian Capital Territory for possible State Sponsorship for the subclass 176 visa. At the moment their List of Occupations has been withdrawn. Originally the Witching Hour for their new List was going to be today but the timing seems to have slipped a bit according to their website today:

Business and Industry Development - ACT Skills in Demand List

Office Manager was on their last List of Occupations as one of the "quota occupations." That is, the ACT were looking for a limited number of Office Managers. We will have to wait and see what their new List says but do keep a close eye on them because the subclass 176 visa would provide immediate Permanent Residency.

The points test is identical both for a State sponsored subclass 176 visa and for a State sponsored subclass 475 visa. I calculate that you should have 100 points, made up as follows:

20 - Age
25 - Proficient English
40 - Nominated Occupation
10 - State Sponsorship
05 - Specific Work Experience

100 points is enough for either of the two visas and either visa would receive priority processing because of the State's support for the visa applicant.

Skilled – Sponsored (Migrant) Visa (Subclass 176)

Please click on Eligibility and then on Main applicant in order to double check your points for yourself.

If you get no joy with the ACT's new List, the alternative is to seek State sponsorship from South Australia for the subclass 475 provisional visa:

Skilled – Regional Sponsored (Provisional) Visa (Subclass 475)

Booklet 6 deals with both visas:

Australian General Skilled Migration Booklet

The fast, reliable link to all of the State & Territory migration depts' websites is here:

State & Territory Migration Sites - australia.gov.au

Click on the link for SA and follow the clues like a bloodhound!

Do you happen to have any close rellies in Oz? If so, whereabouts do they live, please? Rellies no longer make useful Sponsors for skilled applicants but rellies living in a particular State can sometimes help to persuade the State concerned to consider an "off list nomination", particularly with the sc 475 visa. Hence my question. No promises but it is worth asking you about this.

************************************************** *****
Why were you so poorly and wrongly advised by a migration agent? They purport to be "experts" in this field of law.

Is your agent MARA registered?

MARA - Information for Consumers

Ignorance is no excuse if you claim to be an expert and you accept responsibility for a legal matter on behalf of somebody else.

Your agent has little excuse for not being aware that Orion Training can help with the qualifications question.

Your agent has absolutely NO excuse for not being aware that Vetassess will not accept a BTec National Diploma because it is not on the Country Education Profile for the UK as being the equivalent of an AQF Diploma. According to the CEP the BTec ND is the equivalent of AQF IV:

Country Education Profiles

All that Vetassess do when they receive evidence of a qualification held by a candidate is that they consult the CEP for the issuing country. The CEP tells them whether or not the qualification is accepted as being the overseas equivalent of an Aussie qualification and if so, which Aussie qualification. It is a purely clerical exercise which leaves nothing to chance, individual discretion or the imagination. If you purchase a copy of the UK CEP for about £25 you will be able to see for yourself how it works and you may wish to ask your Agent why the agent is apparently not aware of how the CEP works.

In your shoes, I would be demanding a full refund of all moneys paid within 7 days or else.

************************************************** ****
There might be another way round the problem, as well, which might bypass the need for an Orion Diploma. Please bear with me whilst I explain.

Please open two browser windows. Please open the ASRI List in one of them:

A-Z Occupations List - Australian Skills Recognition Information

Please open the ASCO Code in the other:

1220.0 - Australian Standard Classification of Occupations (ASCO) Second Edition, 1997=

The ASRI list is derived from the ASCO Code, which is the detailed, authoritative document describing all the occupations which are recognised in Australia and the qualifications needed for them. If there is a conflict between ASRI and ASCO, ASCO prevails.

A Building Associate Professional 3129-79 needs a degree according to ASRI.

Building Associate Professionals not elsewhere classified 3129-79 - Australian Skills Recognition Information

1220.0 - Australian Standard Classification of Occupations (ASCO) Second Edition, 1997

According to ASCO this same person requires an AQF IV as the minimum qualification. ASCO prevails and it so happens that the CEP for the UK does accept the BTec National Diploma as being the overseas equivalent of an AQF IV.

Conveniently, ASCO offers no clue about what a Buildings (as opposed to an Engineering) Associate Professional not elsewhere classified 3129-79 might do with himself all day long from Monday to Friday! It is a "catch-all" idea, designed to sweep up the people who are clearly Associate Professionals of some sort but they do not fit snugly into any of the other boxes.

Soouth Australia are offering subclass 475 sponsorship to 3129-79 personnel.

Make The Move :: General skilled migration

Please click on the link to the subclass 475 List because when the pdf file opens it does so without a URL at the top to I cannot give you a link which would open the document.

Sponsorship requirements for Offshore 475 or 176

The ACT are fussy about what they want by way of English Language ability and work-experience for each occupation on their sc 176 list. SA are much more forgiving. They say that they will consider sponsoring somebody whose skills assessment is for an occupation on their sc 475 List. With State sponsorship, they sponsor the person not the occupation because the person can't be required to continue to do the occupation once in Australia in any case.

SA are trying to boost the population of SA as much as anything else. They don't want unskilled workers but they do need general skills as well as specialist skills such as Teaching or Nursing. In short, they need "general white collar" workers who can do something useful in the setting of a mining or engineering company, a hospital, a school or whatever the hive of activity is trying to achieve.

ASCO was plainly written by someone who is unaware of what overstaffing does to profitability! According to ASCO an army of professionals, associate professionals, Group 5 support staff and Uncle Tom Cobley and All are required in order to keep an office functioning smoothly. Real life attention to the bottom line usually means that most people are actually hybrids, covering 2 or 3 of the narrow job-descriptions provided in ASCO.

How much of your job is strictly pure Office Management as detailed in ASCO and how much of it is looking after the premises as much as the people who work there?

It may be possible to get SA to agree (in advance) that you will obtain a skills assessment for a Business Associate Professional 3129-79 and nominate that in your State sponsorship application but that your visa application will nominate Office Manager. The migration legislation permits this idea and your existing BTec ND supports the possibility. So it might not be necessary to ask you to do the Orion Diploma. Also if SA weren't looking for a mixed bag of skills their 475 List would not be as it is.

It mght suit SA to get a 3129-79 application rather than yet another applicaton for yet another Office Manager 3291-11. Both occupations are on the SOL, they involve a scenario in which the visa applicant might well be a hybrid in real life and both occupations are on the SA wanted list for the 475 visa so DIAC have no particular reason to quibble. DIAC ought to be grateful for the 2 for 1 offer if you ask me!

I've seen George Lombard do this for another Poms in Oz member a few months back:

Profile | George Lombard Consultancy Pty. Ltd.

I'm sure that lots of the other agents know the ins and outs of this notion as well but I trust George with it because I saw him do it for a dear friend of mine who - just like you - holds a BTec ND and had a migration agent who was out of her depth. He was told that he could nominate Office Manager or Project or Program Administrator because both were on the SA 475 list at the time.

I mused to George that Australia seems to play Musical Occupations! George muttered tersely, "Vetassess will not accept either idea because the BTec is not equivalent to an AQF Diploma." George was right. The chap's agent then ceased trading anyway. He went to George next. I'd have said that Andrew is a Computer Support Technician to judge from what he told me about his job. George got him into SA as a Building Associate Professional 3129-79.

You could just do the Orion Diploma and be done with it. I understand that the cost is about $1,800 AUD. Necessary for somebody with no qualifications but in your case a more sophisticated approach might enable a pretty immediate new application to Vetassess with no further waste of your time because all this should have been explained to you in the beginning. I am not a migration agent but I know about the possibility, so somebody claiming to be an "expert" and charging you a shed load of money for their supposed "expertise" would have some rather awkward questions to answer if I were in your shoes, Irishstew.

Best wishes

Gill

[Irishstew]

Wow Gill, you are utterly amazing! Is there anything about moving to Oz that you don't know?

It will take me a while to digest your suggestions.

My agent was Oz based and registered. When I researched them they were well reported by all.

Whilst I was poorly advised I must admit that when the senior partner became aware of my situation he rang me and offered a full refund, which we accepted.

Thanks again.