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some general questions

This is a discussion on some general questions within the Migration Issues forums, part of the Lounge Room category; i'm ready to decide about visa applications now (got my registration sorted in oz and hence my skills assessment) so ...

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Old 01-07-2009, 09:03 PM   #1 (permalink)
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some general questions

i'm ready to decide about visa applications now (got my registration sorted in oz and hence my skills assessment) so would appreciate a few answers from members and a big thank you in advance.

i could apply for a 175 (occupation is one the MODL list but not the CSL list) but the time involved in this is daunting so i am considering an employer sponsored visa (is this a 457?). How quick are these and once i'm working over there is it difficult to change employer.

i understand with the 175 that you get permanent residence straight away, how long do you have to wait for it with the 457 and critically what benefits do you get with the 457 (medicare?)

i also heard that if you're not a permanent resident (175) then you can't buy an old house, it has to be a new one, is this true?

if you have a 457, can you apply for a 175 while you're over there?

sorry for all the questions but i know there's someone that can answer them for me

thanks again

grant

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Old 01-07-2009, 10:16 PM   #2 (permalink)
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Hi Grant, I'm not sure I can help you with the questions about the 457 visa but I'm sure someone will be along to help out soon. There's been a lot of excitement and activity today with people being granted visas after the start of the new Oz financial year so just bumping this one up the pile again for you in case it was missed...good luck!
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Old 02-07-2009, 05:24 PM   #3 (permalink)
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thanks zedster....

..and bump
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Old 02-07-2009, 07:15 PM   #4 (permalink)
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Hi
Can't help you with all the questions but generally it is quicker to get a temporary residency than a permanent one. Don't know if you have kids, but if you do be aware that you have to pay for schooling on a temp residency even at state schools. You don't pay if you have permanent residency. (saves quite a few grand per child each year)
If you are buying a house you also only qualify for first home buyers grants if you have permanent residency! Something to think about!
Good luck with whichever road you take!
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Old 02-07-2009, 08:24 PM   #5 (permalink)
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Hi Grant

Abstract questions really don't elicit useful answers. What is your occupation, please? Please choose from the list below:

A-Z Occupations List - Australian Skills Recognition Information

Quote:
(got my registration sorted in oz and hence my skills assessment)
What does this mean, please? Do you have a positive pre-migration skills assessment from the relevant authority for the occupation or not? Trade and professional registrations happen in addition to the all important ticket from TRA, Vetassess or whoever, not instead of it.

Whether or not you could even get a temporary employer sponsored visa in the current climate is doubtful and certainly wouldn't be in your best interests if you would be eligible for skilled independent permanent residency instead.

Having an occupation on the MODL is no earthly use to you unless you make a visa application SOON. The current MODL is more than a year old when it is normally reviewed and tweaked twice a year. DIAC could publish a new one at any time so dithering around wondering whetherapplying for the bird in the hand (a 175) is a better idea than looking for the two in the bush (the employer-sponsor in a bear market) simply improves your chances of losing both gambles.

If your occupation is on the current MODL and you are sure that you have 120 points or above plus you genuinely are in possession of the vital skills assessment, then make a subclass 175 application on line without delay so as to protect your current MODL points. Once the visa application is in the system, your MODL points will be protected even if DIAC then alter the MODL before your visa is granted.

Having submitted the sc 175 application in order to protect your MODL points, the next step is to seek out State Sponsorship for the subclass 176 visa. You can apply for an sc 175, then get State Sponsorship for an sc 176. Having got the State offer you then inform the ASPC that you have accepted the offer and wish to change your application to a 176. It takes a couple of e-mails, no additional form filling and no additional fee to DIAC. The reason is because the subclass 175 and the subclass 176 visa are both in Class VE. Because they are in the same Class, an application for one is an application for one or the other and the Case Officer is required to consider your eligibility against the criteria for both visas anyway. Hence it is no sweat to the CO if you chop & change between them after having applied for one of them.

Skilled – Sponsored (Migrant) Visa (Subclass 176)

Australian General Skilled Migration Booklet

DO NOT apply for a sc 176 at the outset because you do not have State sponsorship as yet. Please do this in the right order by applying for the sc 175 first.

Having applied for your sc 175 visa, set about the State Sponsorship Lists for the sc 176 visa and work out which States want you. If you are on the current MODL then at least one of the States wants you even if it is not your own first choice of destination.

The fast, reliable link to all the State websites is here:

State & Territory Migration Sites - australia.gov.au

The visa you want is the Skilled Sponsored subclass 176 visa. You do NOT want a Skilled Regional Sponsored subclass 475 visa. Some States publish two different Lists, one for each visa, so make sure you find the correct List.

The State Lists are apt to change suddenly and without prior warning so watch out for that.

If you are accepted for State sponsorship, you can then switch yourself to an application for a subclass 176 visa which will give you priority processing. To learn more about that, please send a completely blank e-mail to aspc.processing@immi.gov.au The auto reply will explain all the changes. It will arrive within the hour.

Once you have applied for the sc 175 and also for State Sponsorship for the sc 176, then and only then consider whether it is worth trying to find an employer in the sponsoring State . If you go to Oz on a 457 visa having applied for the offshore sc 175/176 visa, the whole family will have to leave Oz for a week so as to be offshore when the PR visa is granted. You can go anywhere you like for this week as long as it is a place which (a) has a DIAC office and (b) is not in Australia. Build the cost of that trip into your calculations about whether it is worth the bother of temporary employment in Oz in the meanwhile.

Cheers

Gill
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Old 02-07-2009, 09:36 PM   #6 (permalink)
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thanks for the replies folks and of course especially to Gill (is there anything you don't know)

my occupation is Optometrist 2384-11, i am already registered as an optometrist in Victoria (but can register in any other state), the examining body is OCANZ and to get a skills cerificate from them, they need a copy of my degree and proof of registration in an australian state (of which i have both) so i have to send those off to get the skills assessment, it doesn't look any harder than that (just have to get them certified)

from the link to the victoria site, optometrist is not on their list of 176 visa occupations. I had been in contact with a large nationwide chain that said they could get me a visa but that was a while ago when i was in the ealy stages of plans and they didn't specify what visa it was and if it would be for victoria. if a profession isn't on the state list does mean you can't get an employer sponsor?

i've just seen that when clicking the link from the job title, it says that optometry is on the ENSOL list as well, does this mean that it would be ok for victoria?

i hope i've been more specific this time and thanks again for taking the time to help out

Last edited by gsaps; 02-07-2009 at 09:40 PM.
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Old 03-07-2009, 11:12 AM   #7 (permalink)
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Hi Grant

Please get a pre migration skills assessment from OCANZ without delay. Ignore anybody who says you would not need it for an employer sponsored subclass 457 visa. In the context of the 457 visa, the person would be right but you don't want a 457 visa so you need the skills assessment from OCANZ.

Employer Sponsored Migration

The temporary subclass 457 visa gets a lot of Press coverage in Australia so it is the visa that every Aussie employer has heard of. Someone who has been an Aussie Citizen all his life has never been eligible for a visa for Australia therefore he offers the only visa he has heard of, which is the 457.

Temporary Business (Long Stay) - Standard Business Sponsorship (Subclass 457)

http://www.immi.gov.au/allforms/booklets/1154.pdf

For somebody like a Plasterer, employers offer 457 visas and everyone else screams, "Don't touch it with a bargepole!" The reason is because the Plasterer won't be paid enough to get any benefit from the tax perks of Temporary Residency and it is a trade which is acutely vulnerable to any downturns in the construction industry. If construction work stops in a particular place the employer will have no hesitation in offloading the temporary Plasterer at a time when all the other local Plastering companies might well be in the same cash strapped boat, making it difficult to find a new employer. If the Plasterer who gets laid off is unable to find another employer quickly, he faces a one way ride out of Australia potentially very soon. He won't be the only unemployed Plasterer scratching around looking for an employer, either.

The 457 tends to work OK in the professional occupations. The employers don't run their cash flow from week to week with the employer and his workforce all biting their fingernails wondering where the next meaty contract will come from and so forth. Also if the pay offered is juicy enough then it would be sensible for you to use Alan Collett of Go Matilda to do the financial deal for you:

Go Matilda - Your Gateway to Australia - Contact and Feedback

Please scroll down to the Our People section, below the on-line form. Alan is an ac****ant in both jurisdictions so he knows exactly how the tax angles work with the 457. There is something called LAFHA (Living Awat From Home Allowance) which is potentially valuable because I believe it is tax free. Also as a Temporary Resident you would get your full Personal Allowances for Income Tax in both countries, I believe. I don't know anything about tax and Alan is the man I would ask if tax is relevant to the consideration about which visa to choose, which is might well be in your case.

The other thing I like about Alan is that he has good nerves. He is not afraid to tell an Aussie employer, on your behalf, "I think you can offer me a better bargain than this.." I would trust him to get a better bargain for you as well.

However there is down side with Temporary Residency as well. At the moment Permanent Residents investing in their first home in Oz can get a Govt cash bost of up to $24,000 and most States offer stamp duty concessions as well. With a Govt that is keen to prop up the ailing construction industry, now is an excellent time for a new migrant Permanent Resident to have a brand new home built in Oz. The builders are hungry for work so you can haggle and so forth. Whether it would be worth foregoing this perk depends on the rest of the pay and tax deal.

DIAC would not bicker about whether a Health professional is of benefit to Australia - the answer is undoubtedly yes. Also they would recognise that you have enough commercial strength not to allow a prospective employer to rip you off so they are unlikely to fuss about whether the pay offered is high enough. A 457 visa should be decided very quickly in your case, plus you might well be able to get your relocation expenses paid for you by the employer though that always comes with strings. It is treated as a loan of the costs which gets written off over a three year period of employment and if you leave sooner than that you would be expected to repay all or part of the loan.

Against all this, a 457 is absolutely perfect for somebody like a senior mining engineer. Very highly paid, a spell in Australia is just another contract for him. His last tour of duty was 3-5 years in Thailand and before that he was in Brazil for 3 years. When the project in Oz is complete he will go to the next place that needs his skills. His long term plan is probably to retire in the UK or somewhere in Europe. If he falls in love with Oz he will be able to get Permanent Residency for himself and his family with no problem so it pays him handsomely to use a 457 visa initially and he might never want anything else. He is exactly the man who the 457 visa was designed for and is aimed at, if you like.

With you, you should start by thinking about what you want. Do you want to move to Australia permanently? I know that Alan Collett does tend to say, "Don't let the tax tail wag the visa dog." I am sure he is right.

Assuming that your pay will be less than about $170,000 a year, getting an OCANZ assessment would enable you to tell the prospective employer, "I don't want a 457 visa. I want immediate Permanent Residency and I want it via an ENS 121 visa, nominated by you, please."

Employer Nomination Scheme (Subclass 121/856)

Employer Sponsored Migration Booklet - Australian Immigration

Employer sponsored Permanent Residency visas get maximum priority processing so if the employer agrees to the plan you can get the visa within 6 weeks if you are well organised and the visa application is perfectly prepared with no documents missing. The employer would have to offer you a three year contract of employment which you would have to accept (it would normally just be a contract for a permanent job but if it is a fixed term then it must run for a minimum of three years.) Additionally the employer must demonstrate that the company is committed to training Aussies - which a nationwide chain would be so that should not be a problem. No doubt they send their workforce off to do courses and get qualifications or they get the trainers to come and teach the workers on site. Something is bound to be in place - it is the Investors In People idea.

The ENSOL is the Employer Nominated Skilled Occupations List. Everything which is on the SOL is also on the ENSOL but some occupations (eg TV director or whatever the ASCO Code calls it) are on the ENSOL but not on the SOL so the TV man would need an employer sponsor.

State Govt involvement is irrelevant to employer sponsored visas in a case such as yours. VIC would not be involved in any way.

Skilled Independent Migration (aka General Skilled Migration)

It is usual that somebody like you is actually eligible for all of the skilled visas for Oz. It is true for nurses as well. With some other occupations it is difficult to squeeze even one visa out of the facts but the opposite happens with someone like you.

Because your occupation is not on the CSL, you would want a State sponsored sc 176. However in your shoes I would apply for an sc 175 first in order to protect your MODL points and then get the State sponsorship once the sc 175 application is safely with DIAC.

Optometrist is not on the VIC 176 Sponsorship List. However every State has 500 "off list nominations" in its gift. These are for people whose occupation is not on the State's own List but the State decides to sponsor them anyway. The States are free to set their own policies about how to use the 500 places and they all differ from each other about what the local policy is.

I am not sure whether VIC state a specific policy about their 500 off list nominations. I suspect that they probably refer them to their industry panel of experts and decide on the basis of the advice they receive but with VIC one thing is for sure - they would insist on evidence of an offer of a permanent job from an employer based in VIC. The world and his dog want to move to VIC so the State Govt there is very fussy and choosy.

With VIC, I would do a bit of brinkmanship. If the nationwide chain is willing to offer you a job which is to be somewhere in VIC, I would ask VIC whether they would consider an off list nomination for you. I would not hold my breath, though. I woud apply to another State as well.

Next Door have Optometrist on their list. You would not need employer involvement in order to apply to SA and their decision making is quick. WA would have you as well but they take about 4 months to decide the application because they have a huge backlog. The NT want you as well but I don't know how long they take to decide applications. I haven't checked Tasmania or the ACT.

If you are minded to consider WA then I would say:
1. Apply for an sc 175.
2. Then apply to WA for sc 176 sponsorship.
3. Then contact employers in WA and say that you want a 457 visa to tide you over whilst you wait for your sc 176 application to come to fruition.

SA are prompt enough that I don't think you would save more than a few weeks if you go via them so it wouldn't be worth the hassle of a 457 visa as well in my view.

Cheers

Gill
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Old 03-07-2009, 01:06 PM   #8 (permalink)
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Vacancies in Victoria (Region)

Hello,

I am not sure if you are interested in regional areas but I know that there were a couple of vacancies for your role in regional Victorian locations. It would be a permanent visa too (under the Regional Sponsored Migration Scheme s/c 119) and my understanding is that you would be employed via the Victorian "Primary Care Trust" equivalent in that area.

This visa does involve Victorian Government (Regional Government Officials who certify the vacancy which is a requirement of the visa) so please PM me if you are interested and I will pass on the email address of the relevant individuals (who all very helpful).

Cheers and best of luck!

P.S. While on the topic of regional Victoria (we think this is great) - the town of Wycheproo is attracting new residents by only charging only $1.00 per week for rental properties in the town: NEWS & FAQs
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Old 03-07-2009, 01:47 PM   #9 (permalink)
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Hi Grant.

I just thought I'd say "Hi" to a fellow Optometrist. I don't work in Australia because I am now a full time mum (I am not registered to practice here), but my husband is a DO and works for Specsavers. He is jsut about to open his new store later on this month. We are here on a 457, but Specsavers are going to sponsor us for PR.

We came on a 457 because Specsavers wanted us here asap. Our visa application was submitted on Friday 6th Feb and was granted on Tuesday 10th - so 4 days over a weekend. However, I do believe that things take longer now. It was lucky really, because we had the shippers in on Thursday and Friday the 12th and 13th, we moved in with the in-laws on the Friday and then flew to Sydney on Monday 16th Feb, handing the in-laws the keys to our house which was already on the market (it has now sold). Was a bit stressful at the time, but now we are here it has all faded in to distant memory! For us, the 457 was a slightly less risky option because as hubby has bought in to a joint venture, his job is secure. Probably a bit more risky for other jobs. Our children are not yet old enough for school (they are 1 and 3), so school fees don't apply to us either. The FIRB restrictions on buying property on a temporary visa have been lifted now too, providing it is for use as your main residence rather than for investment. We had our pre-approval for a home-loan come back fine today, so no problems there either. With Medicare, you do get reciprocal arrangements between the Aus/UK but would need to top up with private healthcare (which we did in the UK anyway).

Don't know whether any of that helps at all.

Last edited by LKC; 03-07-2009 at 02:01 PM. Reason: Needed to put in more stuff :)
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Old 03-07-2009, 08:28 PM   #10 (permalink)
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once again thanks very much Gill, your knowledge is pretty astounding in these things.
i'm going to get my degree and registration documents certified on tuesday and send off for the skills certificate on wednesday
there's a lot of info to process before i get the certificate and make the application.
we had set our hearts on victoria and there do seem to be quite a few jobs in the state, that may of course change.
i'm sure i'll be calling on your wealth of knowledge again Gill so thanks again

grant
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