Parent Visa

[tigger18]

Our daughter has now obtained residency after living in Oz for 3 years with her boyfriend who emigrated with his family. After visiting we now want to get to live in Oz asap along with our 19 year old son. We think the best way is using the Parent Visa with our son as a dependent child as he has been unable to find work in the UK. The forms are quite straightforward although it says the wait time for this type of visa could be 9-11 years!!Is this the best type of visa to go for or are there other ways we could possibly get to be as a family again sooner My husand and I are 48 and 49 and although have always worked do not have required skills for Oz. Any ideas?? Cheers.

[the dougans]

good luck. could one of you not try and get work sponcer on a 457 visa? or you could get the contributry parent visa although this will cost a bit it would take 18 to 24 mths, you could also look in to student visa

[Gollywobbler]

Hello tigger18

Welcome to Poms in Oz.

Our daughter has now obtained residency after living in Oz for 3 years with her boyfriend who emigrated with his family.

Do you mean that your daughter now has a de facto Partner visa? If so she has probably obtained the temporary subclass 820 visa unless she and her boyfriend have a child together who was born in Australia? Please clarify this. As you will see from the link below, your daughter would normally be given only a temporary visa to start with and then two years after the start of the temporary visa, DIAC would contact her to begin the process of upgrading her to Permanent Residency.

Spouse Visa: Onshore Temporary and Permanent (Subclasses 820 and 801)

The only exception to the above would be if they have had a child together who was born in Australia. If so then the child is automatically an Australian Citizen so your daughter may have obtained Permanent Residency immediately because of the baby.

If they have not had a child together then your daughter is almost certainly a Temporary Resident for the time being. She cannot sponsor you or her brother for any sort of visa unless and until she has Permanent Residency, I am afraid.

Therefore Step One is to confirm your daughter's exact visa status, please.

Once your daughter has Permanent Residency (but alas not before and not until unless she has indeed obtained immediate Permanent Residency) then she can sponsor you for any of the 3 offshore Parent visas.

Family - Visas & Immigration

Parent Migration Booklet

Evidently you have been reading about the non-contributory Parent subclass 103 visa. The waiting times are currently around 8 to 9 years. There would be nothing to prevent you from visiting Oz as often as you like/can afford/can get time off work for during the waiting period and this visa does have a LOT going for it despite the time that it takes to obtain it.

The alternative would be to apply for a Contributory Parent subclass 143 visa as soon as your daughter would be able to sponsor you for it. These grant immediate Permanent Residency and are currently being processed within about 18 months. However they are costly to buy. (My mother has a CPV 143.) From 1st July 2009 - 30th June 2010 the costs for a CPV 143 for a couple would be:

$1,705 - 1st Instalment. This covers the cost of processing the application and one application fee covers both of you.
$34,330 - 2nd Instalment. This sum is payable per parent so you need to double it, making $68,660 in total.

In addition there is a Bond to be lodged of $10,000 for the main visa applicant and $4,000 for the secondary applicant. The Bond would be refunded in full after 10 years provided that there have been no recoverable claims on Centrelink (social security) during the 10 year Assurance of Support period.

The $1,705 is payable at the time of making the application. The Assurance of Support is usually requested about 3 months before the visa is ready to be granted and the Bond has to be lodged at the Commonwealth Bank of Australia as part of putting the Assurance of Support into place.

The big money - the 2nd Instalment - is not requested until shortly before the visa is granted. The visa is normally granted within about 3 to 4 weeks after the 2nd Instalment has been paid. They do not ask for the money until they are sure that everything else is OK and there is no reason why the visas should not be granted.

It is now very pricey: $84,365 for a couple including the Bond. Call it $90,000 by the time you have added in the cost of medicals, police checks, flights to Oz, agent's fees if you decide to use a migration agent though as you say the forms etc are perfectly straightforward and if you don't complete them yourself you would still have to supply the agent with all the information so that s/he could complete the forms for you so there is a LOT of legwork for you whether or not you decide to involve an agent as well.

You will note that I have not mentioned your son with either of the above possibilities. There is no sense in trying to include him in a Parent visa. If you decide to go for the cheap but slow Parent 103 visa your son would be over 25 by the time it is ready to grant so DIAC would insist that you withdraw him from the application.

If you include a 19 year old in a CPV 143 application and he is till dependent on you by the time DIAC are ready to finalise the visas, they would insist on another $34,330 for him plus another $4,000 on top for him to be included in the Bond. Even a Student visa for him would cost less than that plus he would be learning a skill so it would be a total no brainer to include him in a Parent or CPV application, I assure you!

I assume that you and your husband have no children on either side apart from the two you have mentioned? No other (possibly estranged) children from previous relationships on either side? Are we all positive about this, please? Both children have the same father, do they, ie your current hyusband?

I am not being intrusive or cheeky, I promise. I am asking in order to find out whether your son will become the Remaining Relative once his sister and both Parents all have PR in Oz?

Remaining Relative Visa (Onshore) (Subclass 835)

Other Family Migration Booklet

If Son would be the Remaining Relly and Parents can afford two CPVs, then the solution for Son is quite simple. He moves to Oz with you when you go. He gets a Working Holiday visa for this purpose:

Working Holiday Visa (Subclass 417)

If he plays his cards right during his first year on a WH visa, he will be able to get a second year in Oz on a WH visa, which will keep him in Oz for as long as is necessary.

Once you and Son have all moved to Oz, your daughter would sponsor your son for the Remaining Relly visa almost immediately after Parents and Bro have arrived in Oz. The onshore version of the Remaining Relly visa was taking about 15 months to process last time I heard. There is no reason why Son cannot use a WH visa to keep him in Oz throughout the processing period and then once the Remaining Relly visa is granted, he will have Permanent Residency in Oz in his own right.

This is the easy and cheaper way to sort things out for your Son provided that you and Hubby could afford two CPV 143s? (Forget the temporary sc 173 visa in your situation. Son will not be a Remaining Relly until he is the only member of the close family who does not have Permanent Residency in Australia. The other 3 must have PR before he can apply for a Remaining Relly visa.)

You say that you and Hubby both work but that your skills are not on the SOL. That is not necessarily fatal. What are your occupations, please? There is a small chance that an employer sponsored pathway to PR might be possible for one or other of you, depending on:
(a) what you both do by way of occupations; and
(b) whether or not you would be prepared to live in Regional Oz for a few years.

Whereabouts in Oz does your daughter live, please?

Also do you and/or Hubby run your own business at present by any chance? If so then a Business Skills visa might not be out of the question.

At this stage, more information from you would be useful, please.

Best wishes

Gill






Family - Visas & Immigration

[tigger18]

good luck. could one of you not try and get work sponcer on a 457 visa? or you could get the contributry parent visa although this will cost a bit it would take 18 to 24 mths, you could also look in to student visa

Hi
Thanks for your response. We will look into both of these especially after all the additonal information received. :spinny:

[tigger18]

Hi

Wow, what a fantastic amount of information - thank you so much! It has certainly made us re-think our plans, especially relating to our son.

I'm a bit ahead of myself, our daughter is on a de-facto visa and has applied for PR which is due to be confirmed (fingers crossed) before December. We did realise that this needs to be in place before we can do anything!

Having gone through your very informative response, we would have to follow the non-contributory parents visa as we do not have the funds for the contributory one. On this basis we realise we could have a very long wait! However, can you confirm if our son went over on a WHV for a year he could possibly extend this for a further year at the end of that. He would be able to live with his sister during this time and presumably work but only for 6 months at a time with any single employer? What would then happen at the end of the second year if my husband and I were still waiting on the non-contributory visa to be dealt with?

Also, what are the options for a Student Visa? Is this only available for a certain age group and how does it work?

My husband is 48 and myself 49. He has worked in catering for many years starting off as a waiter and moving into management. He is currently a cook in a local hotel but is not a qualified chef although he does have City & Guilds 1 and 2 but not sure if these mean anything any more. I have always worked as a secretary.

They are indeed our only children.

Thank you again for all your help, I'm so glad I came across this site!

[Gollywobbler]

Hi Tigger

My husband is 48 and myself 49. He has worked in catering for many years starting off as a waiter and moving into management. He is currently a cook in a local hotel but is not a qualified chef although he does have City & Guilds 1 and 2 but not sure if these mean anything any more. I have always worked as a secretary.

Cook 4513-11 - Australian Skills Recognition Information

How long has Hubby been doing his current Cook job, please? His City & Guilds may well be relevant. It depends when and how he obtained them.

Even if nothing can be done using the C&G qualifications, Chef Central or Culinary Solutions would be able to assess Hubby for the Aussie AQF III qualification in the UK. That would definitely get him through Trades Recognition Australia via TRA Pathway E.

I came across a Chef/Cook a few months ago on another forum. He was 54 and had been living and working in Perth for 20 months. On the day when he posted his message, he had just heard that his ENS 856 had been granted, giving him Permanent Residency in Australia.

The way this works with someone of Hubby's age is as follows:

An Aussie employer would offer him a job plus offer to sponsor him for a visa. To start with the employer would probably want to offer the temporary subclass 457 visa but not necessarily so. Employers tend to think in terms of the temporary 457 because it is the visa they have all heard of. There is no upper age limit on the 457 visa:

Temporary Business (Long Stay) - Standard Business Sponsorship (Subclass 457)

http://www.immi.gov.au/allforms/booklets/1154.pdf

It is now harder to get 457 visas than it used to be, but it is not impossible. There are plenty of qualified Aussie Cooks & Chefs but they don't want the work because of the antisocial hours and it must get very hot in the kitchens in Summer, I would think. (I don't know but I am not sure that one would want to chill the air in a commercial kitchen?)

Whereabouts does your daughter live, please, because obviously you would want to be reasonably near her? If she lives in an area which is classified as Regional Australia then it is possible that Dad could get PR via the RSMS 119/857 visa either immediately or after a trial period of work out in Oz:

Regional Sponsored Migration Scheme (Subclass 119/857)

Although the words say that the cut off age is 45, an exemption from the normal age restriction is possible and is not infrequently used:

Regional Sponsored Migration Scheme (Subclass 119/857)

Regional Sponsored Migration Scheme (Subclass 119/857)

Cook is on the current MODL but might come off it later this year. An RSMS visa would involve Dad entering into a 2 year (minimum) contract with his employer so as to keep Dad living and working in Regional Oz for at least 2 years after the RSMS visa is granted. (The hope is that you and he would grow roots in the Regional area and stay there but once the visa conditions have been fulfilled there is no reason why you could not choose to go to live & work in the middle of Sydney or Melbourne if you so wish.)

If your daughter lives in one of the main State capitals (or Newcastle or Wollongong if in NSW) then the chances are that Dad's employer would not be a Regional employer. If so, an ENS 121/856 visa would be the PR option instead:

Employer Nomination Scheme (Subclass 121/856)

Again, an exemption from the normal age criteria is possible:

Employer Nomination Scheme (Subclass 121/856)

Booklet 5 decscribes the ENS and RSMS visas:

Employer Sponsored Migration Booklet - Australian Immigration

The pre migration skills assessment authority for a Cook is Trades Recognition Australia:

workplace.gov.au - Trades Recognition Australia

It is not actually essential to have a skills assessment approval from TRA for any of the 3 visas described above, but it is much better to get it in advance before leaving the UK. The reason is because the rules for the ENS visa, especially, require the person to have spent not less than 2 years living and working in Oz on a 457 visa if he cannot produce a positive skills assessment from TRA. However if he can do so then there is no need to wait for 2 years before applying to upgrade to PR:

Employer Nomination Scheme (Subclass 121/856)

You only have to comply with one of the bulleted criteria in the link above, not with all 3.

If he can produce a positive TRA assessment then technically there is no need to use a temporary 457 visa at all. The employer could agree to so straight for immediate PR for Hubby via either the ENS or the RSMS visa as appropriate.

However old habits die hard and they all know about the 457 visa. Plus if the employer wants to insist on a temporary trial period before confirming an offer of permanent employment, then a 457 visa is the way to do it. That said, if Hubby already has a TRA assessment then he is in a good bargaining position to insist that it must be written into the deal that the employer will nominate Hubby for an ENS visa or sponsor him for an RSMS visa after only a short trial period on the temporary sc 457 visa. The faster that Hubby can get PR for himself and for you then the faster your son's PR visa can be sorted out too. It might even be possible to include Son in whichever skilled visa you might get but the WH visa would look after Son for a couple of years anyway if necessary.

What also tends to happen in a situation like yours is that both employers and the Government tend to be sympathetic towards the family's wish to be re-united in Oz. They all have families of their own and they would not want to be separated from them any more than your family likes the separation, after all.

So what you could do would be to apply for a Parent 103 visa just as soon as your daughter has PR.

In the meantime though, keep quiet about a Parent visa application which is either about to enter the system soon and once it has done so. DO NOT distract and/or confuse an Aussie employer who knows nothing about the range of migration options for Australia. We want the employer wearing blinkers. All that he needs to hear is the 457 visa, which he knows about anyway, plus the mantra that either of an ENS or an RSMS visa is a great deal less onerous for the employer than a 457 visa, We do not want the employer to hear any other "message" than that it is his job to help you to get PR as early as possible.

The news about the Parent application being in the pipeline serves a different purpose, if you like. All that the employer needs to know about it is that yes it would get PR for you eventually but it is a shockingly long and uncertain wait (they are all shocked by the timescale once they find out about it.) The employer can help you to avoid that lengthy wait. Most of them would be keen to help you if they are handled in the right way. Wait till you are out there and have made friends with him first before telling him anything he does not have any real need to know. Family stream visas have nothing to do with the employer's relationship to and with Hubby, after all.

Similarly with DIAC, if it is a 50/50 situation of deciding whether or not an Aussie employer really needs Hubby and really couldn't find an Aussie Cook if he makes more effort to look for one, the news that Australia is going to get Hubby eventually anyway via the Parent visa application does tend to make the average DIAC official shrug and think, "We might as well let him start paying tax in Australia now, then. Why keep ourselves waiting for this couple's tax contributions to the Aussie economy?"

You are not eligible for a skilled visa in your own right but potentially Hubby most definitely is. Whether he is on a 457, an ENS or an RSMS visa, as his Partner you have an unlimited and unrestricted right to work if you wish, or not as you prefer.

Please see my next reply......

[Gollywobbler]

HI again Tigger

Since we now know that you will have to wait for some months before you can submit a Parent 103 application anyway, let us examine the skills angle for Hubby next.

When a British Cook submits a pre migration skills assessment application to TRA, they consult a document called the Uniform Assessment Criteria, which is here:

http://www.workplace.gov.au/NR/rdonl...tember2007.pdf

Please see the Table at Section 8. TRA would assess hubby against the criteria for their Skilled Pathways A or B. Section 9 contains the detailed criteria for Pathway A and Section 10 deals with Pathway B.

How did Hubby become a Cook/Chef? You say he started out as a waiter. Did he then become a Cook/Chef before moving into Hospitality Management and now back into the kitchen? Who taught him his commercial cookery skills and on what basis? Was it some sort of genuine apprenticeship, probably involving day release to College or at least evening classes via which he obtained his City & Guilds? How long did he attend College for in order to attain his City & Guilds and when did he get his C&G 2?

Having grilled him about that, please, are you able to confirm that he has spent at least 4 years of his working life working full time as a Cook or as a Chef? The more years the better but the minimum is 4. This is relevant to whether or not getting and AQF III qualification is either necessary or might be worthwhile. (It might stand him in good stead out in Oz, where employers are now being encouraged to demand formal, paper qualifications, though the British City & Guilds qualifications are known and respected the world over.)

I mentioned Chef Central and Culinary Solutions. I have never spoken with anybody from Culinary Solutions but apparently they send AQF assessors to the UK regularly and I have heard that they charge less than Chef Central.

Culinary Solutions Australia - Assessment Information

Please also see the brochure:

http://www.culinarysolutions.com.au/...didate_kit.pdf

And please study the link below carefully because it explains exactly how the AQF assessment process works:

Culinary Solutions Australia - Flow Chart

The AQF III is the minimum qualification for a Cook. The Diploma would be necessary to get a skills assessment from TRA as a Chef and C&G 2 will not do instead of an AQF Diploma but it might be OK for a skills nomination as a Cook. (We can easily find out about that bit.)

Chef (excl. Commis Chef) 3322-11 - Australian Skills Recognition Information

There is probably much to be said for keeping this simple by dumbing Hubby's CV down a bit if necessary in order to call him a Cook, though if Cook does come off the MODL - as is expected - I don't think Chef will come off the MODL as well.

However don't get too heavily bogged down in the detail for now. A general overview is more important at this stage.

Chef Central | Frequently Asked Questions

The UK Operations Manager is a guy called Peter Hodges, based iin Chester. Both the mobile numbers given in the Contact Us section are UK numbers and the first one is Peter's number. I have spoken with him on the phone a couple of times. Very pleasant, very professional and very efficient. If Hubby needs to get an AQF qualification - which we do not know as yet one way or the other - then I would have no hesitation in recommending Peter Hodges even though Chef Central is more expensive than Culinary Solutions, I am told.

The imporant thing to note is that Hubby almost certainly can get a positive skills assessment from TRA because if he can't do so under Pathways A or B in the UAC, he certainly could do so via getting an AQF qualification which would get him through TRA Pathway E instead.

************************************************** ****

Your son. I would suggest leaving considerations about him to one side for the moment because right now the overall game plan depends on Hubby and whether an employer sponsor can be found for him more than on anything else.

Your son can be sorted. He can get up to 2 years in Oz on a WH Visa. He can be a Student indefinitely. But sooner or later he can get PR once your daughter has PR and then you and Hubby also have PR. I can understand your anxiety as Mum but the way to handle Son's situation will depend on the way Hubby's situation is handled so we need a clear plan for Hubby first & foremost, since you already have the Parent visa angle under perfectly sound and solid control. When the relevant child is only 19, there is ALWAYS a way to get him into Oz sooner or later, never you fear.

I repeat because this is important!!! Where does your daughter live, please? If I know that I can help you to narrow everything down!

Cheers

Gill

[tigger18]

Hi Gill

Thank you again for such an informative and very postive response!

Firstly, our daughter lives in Perth, sorry I should have told you this in my last response!

Secondly, and not wishing to digress from the cook option for hubby, but as he has also been in management for many years and has a wealth of experience in that line of employment would any companies sponsor him on this basis. We noticed when we were in Perth in March that places like Chicken Treat and Red Rooster were hiring Managers etc which would be right up hubby's street - would be this an option at all do you think?

Will look carefully at the info provided in your last post and will come back to you.

Thank you very, very much again.

PS: Your advice re getting our son into Oz is also very assuring. All we want to do is have our family as a unit again and we just fell in love with Perth and its lifestylet etc and cant wait to get over - hopefully!

[Gollywobbler]

Hi Tigger

Secondly, and not wishing to digress from the cook option for hubby, but as he has also been in management for many years and has a wealth of experience in that line of employment would any companies sponsor him on this basis. We noticed when we were in Perth in March that places like Chicken Treat and Red Rooster were hiring Managers etc which would be right up hubby's street - would be this an option at all do you think?

After you get PR, probably yes. Before that, no because the occupation is Restaurant & Catering Manager 3321-11:

1220.0 - Australian Standard Classification of Occupations (ASCO) Second Edition, 1997

This occupation is not on the SOL but Cook is. The less complicated the ideas are, the better. Get hold of Hubby's CV and dumb it down so as to focus it firmly on Cook, I would suggest.

Cheers

Gill

[tigger18]

Hi Gill

Firstly, we want to say how blown away we are with the amount of information you have provided, absolutely fantastic, thank you!

We need to sit down and go through all the various options you have given us and digest and no doubt we will then come back to you with even more questions, sorry!

A few things initially, Paul (hubby) has worked in various establishments over the last 30 years, starting off as I mentioned as a waiter but then was a cook in various restaurants (not a chef though) but most of these have now either closed down (and had houses built on the site!) or changed ownership. He has kept in touch with one chap who he worked with at a couple of restaurants who was his boss as he was Paul's Head Chef and he could easily give references for Paul but would this be acceptable, after all, couldnt he just be "anybody" rather than someone who actually Paul worked with?

I smiled at your comment about Australians not wanting to work in the heat of a kitchen - not sure if you are based in the UK or over in Oz but at the moment we are going through a bit of a heatwave and the kitchen is unbelieveably hot!! I know as well as I work with Paul at weekends (I'm on pot wash!!) and boy is it hot so working in heat would certainly not be a problem for Paul (our daughter tells us how hot it is in Perth at the height of the season!!).

Also, we are hoping to be visiting our daughter again next April/May (to help me celebrate my 50th birthday) and we were wondering whether it is feasible to travel over with our son but get him a working visa to go out on. We would then return after a month but leave our son to live with our daughter and stay/work for a year. One of the reasons for this is that he is a terrible flyer (almost didnt make it past Dubai when we went earlier this year) and he really doesnt want to go out there if he has to come back any time soon! Would this be a good idea bearing in mind what Paul might be trying to achieve - would it go against us in any way?

So many questions, really sorry!

Will get back to you again once we have read the info given in your earlier posts.

Many thanks again.

Jean