shaxncarl Posted April 9, 2009 Share Posted April 9, 2009 Hi :arghh: We are now getting so confused as to what to do. I have worked as a Pub Manager for approx 10 years but this apparently is not needed in Oz and not on the SOL list, Hotel or Motel Manager is but not a Pub Manager, I have investigated this route and been told as I am not longer in this trade its not an option. I got made redunant due to the way the trade is so I had no option but to change careers. I am now working as a Care worker, working in the community however I'm, not too if this is covered as a Community Worker as listed on the SOL 2512-13. I have an opportunity to undertake an NVQ 3, so will do this in due course, but can this be used as trade. We are fortunate that I have family living in Oz (WA) so I could get a sponorship, I have also been offered possible employement as an Office Manager for my relatives company. We are determined to make this our dream but not sure the best way to make this happen. We are both willing to train again if we have to, but not sure what would be the best route. Any kind for advise or information would truely be appreciated. Also one last question, to use an agent or not ????:hug: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wrussell Posted April 9, 2009 Share Posted April 9, 2009 You should at least consult a registered migration agent to assess your visa prospects. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Gollywobbler Posted April 9, 2009 Share Posted April 9, 2009 Hi Sharon & Carl Welcome to Poms in Oz. This is what you said in your earlier thread: Hi Whoever can help We have spoken to quite a few people and are having many conflicting advice that now we are quite confused. Firstly I have family (Mum & Siser) that live in Oz (Mandurah WA) who is willing to sponsor us and already have the possiblity of a secure job offer. However not too sure what to do from here. I am an Office Manager, have been for quite a few years, I am qualified with a HNC in Business & Finance, but is this enough for AQF credited, not too sure. Also have other qualifications, but this is more for the Hospitality Trade. I am willing to study again if this is necessary, but not sure if is required, or what is the best long distant course to take. We have 3 children, 19, 13 and 11. How do we prove that the 19 year old is totally indpendant on us. We obviously want her to be able to come with us. We are willing to do what ever it takes to get to Oz but we didnt realise it was quite so confusing. Is it best to use an agency or is it viable to do on your own without the use of an agent. Any kind of advice would be very much appreciated. Thank you. Sharon n Carl:arghh: Who have you spoken with, please? Are you confused because you have consulted several registered migration agents who have given conflicting advice? This does happen pretty frequently often because the enquiry is made on the phone and the agent is not told all of the relevant facts during a brief phone call, and/or the agent may not ask enough of the right questions so as to elicit all of the relevant facts. Between your last thread and this one, you are asking half a dozen different questions. Whereabouts are you, please? Are you somewhere in the UK or are you visiting Oz at the moment? I have a feeling that a face to face session with an RMA might be the best way forward for you and if I know where you are then I may be able to suggest someone. Best wishes Gill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaxncarl Posted April 10, 2009 Author Share Posted April 10, 2009 HI Gill You are right in saying that we have had conflicting advice. I have two different trades that I have been told I could use, but which way is the best way we dont know. We are in Portsmouth in England, and think you are right in saying that we would benefit from meeting someone face to face. We just so want this to happen and dont want to give up. Kind regards Sharon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Gollywobbler Posted April 10, 2009 Share Posted April 10, 2009 Hi Sharon It was very late last night when I spotted your cry for help. I was too tired by then to do anything except put all your queries into the same thread and remind myself to look at it again today. Since you are in Pompey you are not far from me (I'm just outside Southampton on the M27.) Which makes my life easier because I can make suggestions to you without needing to consult Google Maps! To the West of you are Go Matilda, somewhere very close to Southampton Airport so their office should be easy to find and airport parking will do if the office does not have dedicated parking: Go Matilda - Your Gateway to Australia - Contact and Feedback To the East, in Hove, is John Mumford of Visa Unit, who also has stacks of experience and a Grade A reputation: Visa Unit - the emigration experts I think Mr Mumford is a one-man band so that you would be assured of personal service at all times and I know he regularly has face to face meetings with clients. If you fancy a day out to a genuinely nice part of the UK countryside (which as you know cannot be said about Soton or Hove) Ian Harrop is in Burford, not far from Oxford. The old part of Burford is a traditional "chocolate box" village with a nice pub for lunch when I last went there about 10 years ago. Ian is an ex-DIAC officer and is probably seen by many as the most experienced Registered Migration Agent in the UK: Registered Australian Migration Agents, UK - Ian Harrop and Associates Agents in Oz can be cheaper - considerably so, particularly since they need not add GST to their fees. (More or less Aussie VAT.) George Lombard in Sydney has a very long and distinguished track record of doing amazingly good work for British clients over the years. A telephone conference with him is easily arranged and surprisingly inexpensive. Visa Info | George Lombard Consultancy Pty. Ltd. When the facts are complex, as yours are, using seriously experienced and senior agents pays for itself over and over again, though their fees may well be higher than those of some of their less experienced competitors. I can't see the point of paying for "professional advice" unless it genuinely is professional, accurate and the best. I'd suggest phone calls to all four in the first instance before choosing one of them but send detailed CVs for both of you before you make the initial phone call. The Agent needs to get a reasonably clear idea of what issues s/he will need to consider with you. Give the agent some time to mull over the CVs so that you will get the best out of the ensuing conference, I would suggest.. Best wishes Gill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaxncarl Posted April 10, 2009 Author Share Posted April 10, 2009 Hi Gill Thanks for your quick reply. Its all just so confusing as to what is the best way forward. Obviously we dont want to waste our time and money going with an agent who is not best qualified. If you have a family sponsorship and have an offer of employment with a business in Oz do you still have to go through the trade assessments this side of the world first before anything can happen. Thank you so much for your help so far. Are you not an agent at all because you seem very helpful and approachable have you not thought about being an agent. kind regards sharon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Gollywobbler Posted April 10, 2009 Share Posted April 10, 2009 Hi again Sharon I have worked as a Pub Manager for approx 10 years but this apparently is not needed in Oz and not on the SOL list, Hotel or Motel Manager is but not a Pub Manager, You have been wrongly advised. Publican is an alternative job title for Hotel or Motel Manager 3323-11: Hotel or Motel Manager 3323-11 - Australian Skills Recognition Information The detailed, authoritative document relied upon both by DIAC and by the State/Territory migraton authorities is the ASCO Code. Which states: 3323-11 Hotel or Motel Manager Hotelier Publican Organises and controls the operations of hotels or motels in providing guest accommodation, meals and other services. Skill Level: The entry requirement for this occupation is an AQF Diploma or higher qualification or at least 3 years relevant experience. In some instances relevant experience is required in addition to the formal qualification. Registration or licensing may be required. Tasks Include: oversees reservation, reception, room service and housekeeping activities plans and supervises entertainment activities supervises security arrangements, and garden and property maintenance plans and supervises bar, restaurant, function and conference activities observes liquor, gaming and other laws and regulations assesses and reviews customer satisfaction and preferences oversees accounting and purchasing activities ensures compliance with occupational health and safety regulations may provide guests with local tourism information, arrange tours and transportation may manage the entire range of services provided by the establishment or may manage a specialised service area Specialisations: Accommodation Manager Functions Manager Resort Manager 1220.0 - Australian Standard Classification of Occupations (ASCO) Second Edition, 1997 The italics in the description are mine. At present West Australia, Tasmania and the Northern Territory are willing to consider State Sponsorship for the Skilled Regional Sponsored subclass 475 visa for applicants with this occupation. The link to all of the State/Territory migration websites is here: State & Territory Migration Sites - australia.gov.au I have been investigating this very question with a Publican on another forum in the last few days. He is undoubtedly a Publican. I was concerned that West Australia's Policy might be that it only wants the people who understand the accommodation side of Hospitality, not the bar and functions managers as well. So I phoned WA State Migration to find out. They told me categorically that if the candidate's skills assessment says, "Hotel or Motel Manager 3323-11" then WA will not enquire any further about what the applicant might specialise in. They need the full range of Hospitality Management skills in Regional WA apparently. The WA lady said that although WA would not baulk, DIAC might nit pick. DIAC have nothing to nit pick about. The occupation is on the SOL. From the conversations I have had with the staff at DBERD in the NT (though not about this) my guess is that the NT would be just as pragmatic as WA. I don't know about Tasmania. They are considering the Meaning of Life until 4th May, it says on their website, so I figure that by 5th May they will have figured out What Life Means and one may as well defer asking them about this until then. Their view of Life might lead to new State Sponsorship lists, I suspect. VIC will consider 475 sponsorship for this occupation if the person can produce a firm job-offer from an employer in Regional Victoria. I don't know how QLD and NSW would react if presented with a similar job offer from an employer in a Regional part of NSW or QLD and I do not know how South Australia would react to this either. The Australian Capital Territory is potentially offering immediate PR on the State Sponsored 176 visa to a limited number of "Hotel Managers" according to the ACT's 176 List which was published on 24th March 2009. Where they are only accepting a limited number, the ACT insist that potential candidates must contact them in advance of submitting an application. They might mean "General Managers of large Hotels only" but it would do no harm to phone them and ask, to make sure that all possible bases have been covered. How long were you a Publican for and when were you made redundant, plus how old are you now, please? The occupation requires an AQF Diploma or its overseas equivalent. Do you have an HND or an NVQ4 (or a degree) or similar, please? If not, this is easily solved. You could get an AQF Diploma in Business Administration from Orion Training in Brisbane. The cost is $1,520, the whole thing is done on-line, most people complete it within about 2 months and Vetassess accept it without fail every time. With this 40 point occupation, the academic qualification does not need to be relevant to the occupation so an Orion Diploma would solve this bit of the problem if need be. The above would not necessarily get you out of the woods but it DOES need to be properly investigated and not simply dismissed in the way that it seems to have been. If you could please answer my questions above, we can have another pick at this bone and see whether it would be possible to get some useful meat off it. Best wishes Gill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaxncarl Posted April 10, 2009 Author Share Posted April 10, 2009 Hi Gill Its actually me that has been a Publician and Pub Manager. I was made redundant in August 2008 and decided that as its a 24hour job I didnt want to go back, so thats when I decided to change career hence now doing care work. I have been employed as a Pub Manager from 2002, previously before that we had our own business from 2000 (Cabaret Bar). But if absolutely necessary I could go back to the pub trade as keep getting offers of employment. I have a HNC Business & Finance, NVQ 3 Hospitality Management and NVQ 3 in catering & hospitality. I have previously spoken to John Silvester at Go Matilda and he told me that working as a Pub Manager does not cover 3323-11, but when I look through the description of what is required as a Hotel Manager this does cover a vast majority of the skills needed as a pub manager. Carl is 40 and works for British Areospace (GE) as an aircraft fitter, but has no formal training and this is not on the SOL list. He has no other trade as such, has worked as an telephone cable installer but again this was a few years ago and not on the list. He has even considered doing a plumber course or something so we can try that way, but again catch 22 and he has to have proven employment records. John at Go-Matilda said that working as a Pub Manager could possibly cover the Office Manager, hence thats why I said right at the being that I was an Office Manager. Obviously as an pub manager the office work was a huge part of the job and I taught and instructed other managers what to do on a daily basis. OH MY GOD IS SO CONFUSING!!!!!! kind regards sharon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Gollywobbler Posted April 10, 2009 Share Posted April 10, 2009 Hi again Sharon I am now working as a Care worker, working in the community however I'm, not too if this is covered as a Community Worker as listed on the SOL 2512-13. I have an opportunity to undertake an NVQ 3, so will do this in due course, but can this be used as trade. Community Worker 2512-13 - Australian Skills Recognition Information This notion is not a goer as it stands because the occupation requires a degree, which it seems you do not have? However depending on who you care for and in what way, it is not impossible that you are something else which is on the SOL. You have not told me enough about what you actually do. Offhand I can think of 3 possibilities, perhaps, 2 of which are on the SOL. Here goes: Residential Care Officer 3421-15 - Australian Skills Recognition Information 1220.0 - Australian Standard Classification of Occupations (ASCO) Second Edition, 1997 Disabilities Services Officer 3421-17 - Australian Skills Recognition Information Would either Residential Care Officer or Disabilities Services Officer be realistic for you? If so then: 1. An AQF Diploma would be required - same drill as for Publican 2. QLD and the Northern Territory would both consider State Sponsorship for the SRS 475 visa if this occupation is nominated. WA might do so as well if their arm is twisted on the basis of close family ties in Regional WA plus one of the Regional Development Commissions in WA is willing to support an application for State Sponsorship from you. The shortage of workers in WA is in the Gascoyne, Pilbara and Kimberley Regions according to the lady at DBERD in the NT, who herself is a migrant to the NT from Perth! The northern halves of WA and QLD plus the whole of the NT all have exactly the same skills shortages as each other according to the lady in the NT. If one of the 3 WA Regions which I have mentioned is willing to back you for State Sponsorship, you could move to Mandurah in the Peel Region with no sweat and do whatever you want when you get there. Orion Training tailor the course material for their Diplomas so as to make the training rfelevant to what the person actually does for a living. Everyone who has used Orion speaks very highly of them. The third possibility is Aged Care Worker but this is not on the SOL and would require sponsorship from a Regional Employer - ie in the North of WA I suspect. I suspect that this would not suit you so if you are an Aged Care Worker, I suggest we abandon it unless we can call you one of the two occupations on the SOL? (Which might well be do-able if you have the Diploma.) Best wishes Gill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaxncarl Posted April 10, 2009 Author Share Posted April 10, 2009 Hi Gill Thanks again for your time, its really appreciated. Working on Good Friday not good. The work I do is community work. We go into peoples house, generally the elderly giving personal care, domestic duties and generally enabling the client to stay in their own home. So I dont think it covers residential care officer or disabilities officer. kind regards. sharon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Gollywobbler Posted April 10, 2009 Share Posted April 10, 2009 Me again Sharon! Office Manager 3291-11 - Australian Skills Recognition Information 1220.0 - Australian Standard Classification of Occupations (ASCO) Second Edition, 1997 Thanks for your last reply and I do hear you, but I disagree with John Sylvester about Publican. How old are you, Sharon? From everything you have told me, my gut instinct is to call you a Hotel or Motel Manager, supported by State Sponsorship from WA for the 475 visa. The reason why I would suggest Publican rather than Office Manager is because Office Manager is not on WA's List whereas Hotel & Motel Manager is, plus WA told me only 2 or 3 days ago that their own only concern is what the skills assessment certificate from Vetassess says. It is easier to offer WA State Migration something which is on their List instead of something which isn't, it seems to me, and I reckon that a State Sponsored 475 visa would be easier to get than an employer-sponsored ENS or RSMS visa in circs where the State Migration people and DIAC might well bicker about why the employer can't find a suitably trained and experienced Aussie to do the very ordinary, usually not very specialised job of an Office Manager. Would the job be as an Office Manager in the Hospitality industry since your own background is clearly strongly in Hospitality? My inclination is to have a look at your Points for Hotel or Motel Manager: Skilled – Regional Sponsored (Provisional) Visa (Subclass 475) ?? - Age? 15 - Competent English. Possible 25 instead via doing the IELTS 40 - Nominated Occupation 10 - State Sponsorship What does the total come to once you add your age, Sharon? The WA State Migration website is here: http://www.migration.wa.gov.au/ http://www.migration.wa.gov.au/?page=living-in-the-regions http://www.migration.wa.gov.au/media/documents/WAOIDL_JANUARY_2009.pdf http://www.migration.wa.gov.au/?page=skilled-regional-sponsored-visa It is clear that WA would not make bones about Publican and I don't see how DIAC could do so considering that the SOL is derived from the ASCO Code and 3323-11 in ASCO plainly includes Publican and specifically recognises that some Hospitality Managers specialise in a particular section - in your own case, the wet stock. Cheers Gill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaxncarl Posted April 10, 2009 Author Share Posted April 10, 2009 Hi Gill Im 38, 39 in May. Does it matter that I am no longer in the trade. Should I start looking again to go back into the pub trade. thanks again sharon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Gollywobbler Posted April 10, 2009 Share Posted April 10, 2009 Hi Sharon Thanks for the note about your age. Please bear with me. Your Points Dammit, you do not have enough points for a State Sponsored subclass 475 visa. I get 85 at present, made up as follows: 20 - Age 15 - Competent English 40 - Nominated Occupation 10 - State Sponsorship Total: 85. You need a minimum of 100. Even if we add another 10 points via your sitting the IELTS you are still going to be short of 5 points because your 8 month enforced career break from the Licenced trade means that you cannot claim the remaining 5 points for Specific work experience: Skilled – Regional Sponsored (Provisional) Visa (Subclass 475) Skilled – Regional Sponsored (Provisional) Visa (Subclass 475) However, your mother & sister live in Mandurah, which is Regional WA. Either of them could sponsor you for a subclass 475 visa. In that event your Points total would become: 20 - Age 15 - Competent English 40 - Nominated Occupation 25 - Family Sponsorship Total: 110 which is more than enough. You would not need to bother with the IELTS but you WOULD need to get an AQF Diploma. Your present qualifications are not enough to get you out of the need to obtain an AQF Diploma from Orion Training. Orion Training and Performance Management | Brisbane Training and Managment The best thing is to contact Orion without delay. I am told that they do not respond to e-mail enquiries so you have to phone them. Be guided by them about whether to do the Diploma in Business Management or the easier, cheaper one in Business Administration. All of the occupations we have discussed are 40 point occupations. ALL of them need this Diploma, without which the idea goes nowhere. Therefore the sooner you get the Diploma, the better. You do not have to select which occupation to nominate to Vetassess for the skills assessment at this stage. You cannot apply to Vetassess until after you have the Diploma, which will probably take about 8 weeks to complete the course plus another month to get the Diploma certificate through the post. After that the Vetassess application would take another month or so to come back and you cannot apply for a subclass 475 visa without getting the skills assessment first. Another reason for getting the Diploma in order to get the skills assessment is so that we can then look at the possibility of an employer-backed PR visa for you, either via the ENS 121/856 Employer Sponsored visa or possibly the RSMS 119/857 visa instead. If you have a positive skills assessment, you can apply for immediate Permanent Residency under the ENS or RSMS schemes. Without the skills assessment, you would have to spend time on a temporary employer sponsored 457 visa first. The longer you wait without PR the harder it would be to argue that your 19 year old is dependent on you and should therefore be included in yhour own PR visa. So please get cracking with Orion without delay? Employer Sponsored PR visas are here: Skilled Workers Permanent Visa Options- Employer Sponsored Workers - Workers - Visas & Immigration Employer Sponsored Migration Booklet - Australian Immigration We are fortunate that I have family living in Oz (WA) so I could get a sponorship, I have also been offered possible employement as an Office Manager for my relatives company. Unfortunately it is not as aimple as a bit of job-creation by a relly's company. For the ENS visa, the Company must prove as follows: Employer Nomination Scheme (Subclass 121/856) Employer Nomination Scheme (Subclass 121/856) And now the crunch: Employer Nomination Scheme (Subclass 121/856) To participate in the Employer Nomination Scheme, the employer must: be actively and lawfully operating a business in Australia have a genuine need for a paid employee to fill a position in their business follow all relevant Australian laws and have a satisfactory record of meeting immigration laws (if applicable) have a current training strategy for existing Australian employees, or if a newly established business, have a training plan for future training of Australian employees provide the employee with an offer of permanent employment. A one or two man band with no employees has no training scheme for them either. It is very doubtful whether it genuinely needs an Office Manager if it is tiny. So, please: 1. What does the company do? 2. How many people does it employ? 3. What are the training arrangements for existing employees? 4. If it genuinely needs an Office Manager, what has it done about looking for one locally and why are none of the applicants suitable hitherto? 5. What particular skills would you bring to the company which cannot be sourced locally? The Minister is on a huge "Aussie Jobs For Aussie People" jag at the moment so you can expect suspicion and possibly hostility from DIAC, hence you and your rellies need to have a cold, hard look at how solid the idea of employer sponsored PR really is for you in the current conditions, I would suggest. More people would have to be involved with an RSMS visa, which I reckon is not a helpful notion to you: Regional Sponsored Migration Scheme (Subclass 119/857) The RSMS visa does away with the need for a training scheme for employees etc but as against that the Regional Certifying Body has to be involved. The RCB for the Peel Region is this orgaanisation: Regional Development Coordinator Peel Development Commission PO Box 543 MANDURAH WA 6210 Telephone: 08 9535 0000 Fax: 08 9535 2119 Email: pdc@peel.wa.gov.au Somebody called Claire English in SA State Migration HQ also seems to be involved to judge from this link: Regional Certifying Bodies The Peel Development Commission does have its own website: Peel Development Commission Unemployment in the Peel Region seems quite high (4.6% in June 2008 according to the PDC website.) Why, I wonder? Another complication is that TAFE WA has a campus in or close to Mandurah, plus the rail link to Perth now makes the other TAFE campuses easily accessible for training purposes etc. My own feeling, for what it is worth, is that the company in the Peel Region is the one which needs to consult a migration agent more than you do in order to work out whether either an RSMS or an ENS visa would actually be viable in the present economic climate in WA. I'd talk to some migration agents in Mandurah if I were the family needing help. I'd want advice from the people on the ground locally, dealing with the RCB for Peel and DIAC in Perth every week. Depending on what such people with the relevant experience say, all is not lost. You could still lodge a family sponsored 475 visa and see what else can be done in the meantime. Best wishes Gill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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