Before you all laugh, I am not the aspiring Sparky! I am trying to find some help for a new Member, who is.
Facts
Age 38
Holds combined NVQ3 and C&G2330, awarded about 18 months ago.
Has 18 months full time work experience as a sparky since then.
Has about 3 years' experience as a sparky overall.
Has been told by a Migration Agent that the above is not enough and that he should become a student bricklayer or student plasterer in Oz.
Has been told that he could work during the day and do a bricklaying or plastering course in the evenings.
The student visa idea sounds like complete nonsense to me.
At the very worst all that the sparky might be likely to need is a bit more practical experience in order to be able to get an OK from VETASSESS, I would have thought? Yes/no, please?
Can anyone offer any guidance about these VETASSESS assessments for sparkies, please?
I have already suggested contacting bernie whose Hubby did the sparky practical last December, sent the link to Hubby's description of the practical test etc.
Scouring the VETASSESS site (for the first time ever) I couldn't find anything about the amount of hands-on, practical experience needed?
Do we think the first section of my description above would be enough to get someone through both the pre-assessment and the practical test, please?
Off the top of my head, I think Vetassess require 4 years experience. Believe this is the same for the Visa application as General Electrician on the MODL list. I will check my paperwork later and let you know if it is any different.
Vetassess require evidence of this experience normally a 'reference' from a contractor or if self employed as I am, references from regular customers and companies that I have worked at. They require dates of work, type of work completed, attitude etc.
Gill, they are quite 'hot' on inspection and testing, so it may be worth doing the 2391 City and Guilds.
Hope this helps, if you need any more help, please PM me.
All the best, Phil
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Vetassess 19.10.07, Pass 7.11.07, PART 2 Pass 8.12.07. Electrician: Online Visa 175 (MODL) 7.4.08 Police Checks 5/08 Meds (fl) 24.7.08 Finalised 22.08.08. C.O 16/9/08 VISA GRANTED 26.9.08 HOUSE SOLD (2nd time!) 21.11.08
Work Experience For applicants who have not completed any formal training you must provide documentary evidence that you have been employed in your trade area for a minimum of two years. This is a mandatory requirement. Applicants who do not have formal training qualifications or have not been employed for a minimum of two years will not be able to progress to the practical skills assessment.
However, the issue I see with the information provided will be whether or not the sparky's work experience will meet the "skilled" criteria for DIAC. A positive skills assessment will not always mean that a person has reached a skilled level of work experience as this is determined by the ASCO not the differing requirements of the various skills assessing bodies. I think this is probably why the agent advised that work experience was insufficient. It would depend on exactly what the sparky was doing but given that most AQF Cert III allow two years for completion (and this is the ASCO requirement for a sparky), 3 years in total including training will be cutting it fine.
Having said that, VETASSESS have not even announced when the next lot of practicals will be so sparky may have acquired the needed breath of experience by then!!!
I am particularly interested in your warning about how DIAC might treat this.
I know that the new trial with sending brickies etc to Vetassess has not been going very long, so it might be too early for solid feeback about how COs are treating this group of applicants.
Your comment has set me wondering about whether the COs are somehow trying to align the Vetassess approvals (in their own minds) with whatever they would have expected to see if this group had been through TRA instead?
I must say that it seems a bit rum to me that a civil servant with no relevant trade training at all might try to second-guess a qualified workplace assessor? Specially with what the Vetassess process costs?
Are they allowed to say to themselves, "I've got 3 applications from Sparkies on my desk. This one has less experience than the other two, so I'll weed this one out and let the other two through"???
Are they allowed to say to themselves, "I've got 3 applications from Sparkies on my desk. This one has less experience than the other two, so I'll weed this one out and let the other two through"???
I'm puzzled now, to be honest.
Many thanks
Gill
In order to get an electrical licence in Aus you must have done a 4 year apprenticeship or something deemed equivalent (probably meaning better than, in my experience).
The problem is that the UK apprenticeship system seems to have fallen apart or we're hearing only from those who aren't really apprentice trained.
To give you an example... imagine someone saying to you, I have a 2 year degree... you wouldn't want to be so rude as to say "no way, no such thing" but you'd probably think it.
The quals on their own though necessary are only one half of the training. A four year apprenticeship under the guidance of one or more qualified tradesmen is the basic minimum.
Notwithstanding a lot of people on here complaining about Australia's rigorous standards requirements I think its a good thing.
I for one don't want to see cowboys building bridges, buildings, roads, cars, aircraft etc.
The VETASSESS website says that people who pass their practical test get an Offshore Technical Report pr some such thing (I can't remember the exact term.) According to VETASSESS, this document would enable (say) the Sparky to get a job working for somebody else as far as I could gather.
However, I've read on the forums that sparkies actually have to do quite an intensive training course of some sort once they get to Oz? Talking with our new Sparky member in Chat the other night, I must admit that we didn't get as far as thinking about what would happen if he gets his visa.....
However, somebody else mentioned 4 years experience is the minimum they will accept for a Sparky wanting a visa. Which doesn't sound fatal to me but I don't know where they would stand on the points test if they have to wait until he is 40 before they can apply.
Thursday night was the Sparky's first day with Poms in Oz and so far he has not posted anything on the forum. Chat was the first place that he found, I think. I am hoping that he will see this thread and join in himself because obviously you, he and Phil know vastly more about all this than I do.
The VETASSESS website says that people who pass their practical test get an Offshore Technical Report pr some such thing (I can't remember the exact term.) According to VETASSESS, this document would enable (say) the Sparky to get a job working for somebody else as far as I could gather.
This would probably be working as a TA (Trades Assistant) similar to the UK semi-skilled.
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However, I've read on the forums that sparkies actually have to do quite an intensive training course of some sort once they get to Oz? Talking with our new Sparky member in Chat the other night, I must admit that we didn't get as far as thinking about what would happen if he gets his visa.....
It wouldn't be a difficult course at all. Only the basic knowledge a fourth year apprentice would be expected to know (a 20 yr old). We're not talking some sort of a masterclass tradesman if such thing even exists.
As far as I'm aware these courses are the requirements of the state authorities who issue the licence. The TRA only assess the basic comparability of the apprenticeship/training (presumably VETASSESS now do same). So if the state authority think that you're not quite up to scratch they make you do a sort of convertion course. This is particularly so to ensure you know AS3000 (wiring regs).
The TRA often made people do a trade test (all trades) in the past. This was done after arrival in Aus and after a positive assessment for the purposes of a migration application. It's no different to a professional being required to do exams to ensure professional standing when moving to a new country.
There's a distinct difference between UK and Aus in legal terms. In the UK (if I recall correctly?) it states that a person must be competent to perform electrical work whereas in Aus you must be licensed (by the State Gov). This puts the onus on the licensing authority to make sure you're properly trained and not a cowboy.
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However, somebody else mentioned 4 years experience is the minimum they will accept for a Sparky wanting a visa. Which doesn't sound fatal to me but I don't know where they would stand on the points test if they have to wait until he is 40 before they can apply.
Yes it would also be interesting to hear if 4 years of experience including working on his own is sufficient or whether it must be under the ongoing supervision of a tradesman as in the case of a normal apprenticeship/internship.
Just in reply to your earlier post, I must say that it seems a bit rum to me that a civil servant with no relevant trade training at all might try to second-guess a qualified workplace assessor? Specially with what the Vetassess process costs?
The new VETASSESS procedure is the only skills assessing body which actually looks at the practical abilities of the applicant in determining if they are at the required level (with the exception of the medical field). Many other skills assessing bodies do not even see the applicant's relevant skill in practice and there are some bodies that do not even consider work references in determining if you pass the skills assessment part of the process.
So it falls clearly within DIAC's remit to assess the skills factor, i.e. irrespective of what the piece of paper in front of CO is saying about a particular individual, does the application show the full range of tasks and duties that is required of that occupation to reach a skilled level. You raise an interesting point though in that perhaps DIAC will show greater deference to skills assessments from VETASSESS (trades) where a competent tradesperson from Australia has assessed someone's skills positively from a practical perspective.
