DanGB Posted April 22, 2015 Share Posted April 22, 2015 Good evening, or morning for you in Aus. Me, my girlfriend and daughter (not mine by blood) have been dreaming of living in Aus one day and with a substantial amount of money saved we believe now is the time to start making ground, however the requirements are making my head bleed with confusion. After days, if not weeks of research on here and immigov I'm still finding it difficult to identify what we need to get the ball rolling and with fear of getting a visa declined due to insufficient documents I provide looms over me constantly. I'm a metal fabricator (322311) by trade and want to bring my family as dependants, my girlfriend is a self employed nursery nurse and daughter 7, is at school. Me and my partner are both 26 and have been living together for almost 2 and a half years and been together for a total of 5 and a half. Is it just me that needs to provide work documents? I.e referees, trade certs ect? Also, is an IELTS and Trade test compulsory on a 457 visa application or is it just if an employer requires it? ANY help/advice would be really appreciated! Thanks, Dan! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bungo Posted April 22, 2015 Share Posted April 22, 2015 Is your plan really to move to Australia temporarily? Because the 457 visa is temporary with no automatic pathway to a permanent visa. If you wanted to move permanently I would recommend you look at the 189 or 190 visa. If it is your visa application then yes it would be just you providing all the work related stuff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marisawright Posted April 22, 2015 Share Posted April 22, 2015 Same question as Bungo - have you looked into all the implications of a 457 visa? If you can possibly get a 189 or 190 you'll be much better off, because with a 457 you'll be up for a lot more expense - not just the eventual cost of moving back to the UK, but things like school fees and medical treatment which you don't have to pay on a permanent visa. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DanGB Posted April 22, 2015 Author Share Posted April 22, 2015 That is a show stopper, I was under the impression that you could get a permanent visa through the 457. Thanks for your comment, we'll have to reconsider our options (and savings) As I believe these visas are a lot more expensive, thankyou! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DanGB Posted April 22, 2015 Author Share Posted April 22, 2015 I didn't really consider either of those visas due to the fact that it can cost a hefty sum before your visa is even accepted, we couldn't afford to lose so much of our savings and get turned down at the last hurdle. We have no property to sell and no belongings to take with us and I thought I could cut costs by getting the 457 as I thought it would be cheaper in the short term. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marisawright Posted April 22, 2015 Share Posted April 22, 2015 That is a show stopper, I was under the impression that you could get a permanent visa through the 457. Thanks for your comment, we'll have to reconsider our options (and savings) As I believe these visas are a lot more expensive, thankyou! It is possible, but it's definitely not automatic. So if you come out on a 457 you have to factor in the cost of going home again if you don't manage to find anyone willing to sponsor you for PR. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bungo Posted April 22, 2015 Share Posted April 22, 2015 That is a show stopper, I was under the impression that you could get a permanent visa through the 457. Thanks for your comment, we'll have to reconsider our options (and savings) As I believe these visas are a lot more expensive, thankyou! There is a common myth that the 457 can be automatically converted into a permanent visa down the line, but there is a lot more to it. If you manage to find an employer and work for them for two years there is a transition stream of a permanent employer sponsored visa available and you get to skip a skills assessment. Permanent visa fees are paid at this point, there is no avoiding the big fees if you want a permanent visa. And in fact you might have been expected to pay the 457 visa application fee as well. But there is also no obligation for the employer to sponsor you for the permanent visa after two years anyway, they may be unwilling or unable to do so. In which case you are back to square one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
srg73 Posted April 22, 2015 Share Posted April 22, 2015 The 457 visa really should be researched before being considered. In addition it always gives the employers the upper hand and I have seen at least one example of pure exploitation interestingly just before the end of the 2 year completion. S Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ali Posted April 22, 2015 Share Posted April 22, 2015 The other thing that you have to consider is that your partner will need the permission of her ex to remove his child from the UK Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marisawright Posted April 23, 2015 Share Posted April 23, 2015 (edited) I didn't really consider either of those visas due to the fact that it can cost a hefty sum before your visa is even accepted, we couldn't afford to lose so much of our savings and get turned down at the last hurdle. We have no property to sell and no belongings to take with us and I thought I could cut costs by getting the 457 as I thought it would be cheaper in the short term. If you come out on a 457 then decide to stay, you'll be up for those hefty fees anyway - with a much greater risk, because if you get turned down you won't just lose the fees, you'll have the expense of moving back to the UK as well. Your safest bet is to talk to a good migration agent (like Go Matilda here on the forums) and get them to give you an assessment of your chances of getting approved. If they say it's unlikely, don't bother. If they say you've got a very good chance, it's worth the investment. Edited April 23, 2015 by Marisawright Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DanGB Posted April 23, 2015 Author Share Posted April 23, 2015 I really didn't think the 457 was as hit and miss as that, Glad I asked. Well I think our next step is talking to a migration agent about our chances, I booked my IELTS last night so hopefully thats the ball rolling. kicking myself for not opening my mouth on here earlier! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marisawright Posted April 26, 2015 Share Posted April 26, 2015 I really didn't think the 457 was as hit and miss as that, Glad I asked. Well I think our next step is talking to a migration agent about our chances, I booked my IELTS last night so hopefully thats the ball rolling. kicking myself for not opening my mouth on here earlier! I'm not sure what you mean by "hit and miss" - but a 457 visa is just, basically, a temp job. Like any temp job, it's not secure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DanGB Posted April 27, 2015 Author Share Posted April 27, 2015 I just thought the 457 was a simple-ish way to gain PR if you proved your worth with your work. I have heard people in the past mention about the exploitation of workers when they think a PR visa is in their grasp, that isn't an option unfortunately, being turned down in 2 years would be heartbreaking and a waste of time. Been speaking to an agent this week and they think we'd be eligible for a 189. Accepted their offer of assistance and waiting for the next move. Fingers crossed, thanks to all for your advice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bungo Posted April 27, 2015 Share Posted April 27, 2015 I just thought the 457 was a simple-ish way to gain PR if you proved your worth with your work. I have heard people in the past mention about the exploitation of workers when they think a PR visa is in their grasp, that isn't an option unfortunately, being turned down in 2 years would be heartbreaking and a waste of time. Been speaking to an agent this week and they think we'd be eligible for a 189. Accepted their offer of assistance and waiting for the next move. Fingers crossed, thanks to all for your advice. No definitely not, the simplest way to get a PR visa is to apply for one from the off. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marisawright Posted April 27, 2015 Share Posted April 27, 2015 I just thought the 457 was a simple-ish way to gain PR if you proved your worth with your work. Yes, but note the IF! There are so many things that can go wrong. Companies use 457 visas to fill temporary positions, that's what they're for. Have you ever applied for a temp job in the UK and been told it could become permanent? Do you assume it will definitely happen if you're good enough? Usually that's not the only consideration - there's a reason it's a temporary job. Maybe the department hasn't got the funding for a permanent job, but they're hoping the funding will be approved before your contract ends (if it isn't, you're gone). Or maybe the company isn't travelling too well and they're hoping things will pick up (if they don't, bye bye). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
calNgary Posted April 27, 2015 Share Posted April 27, 2015 I just thought the 457 was a simple-ish way to gain PR if you proved your worth with your work. I have heard people in the past mention about the exploitation of workers when they think a PR visa is in their grasp, that isn't an option unfortunately, being turned down in 2 years would be heartbreaking and a waste of time. Been speaking to an agent this week and they think we'd be eligible for a 189. Accepted their offer of assistance and waiting for the next move. Fingers crossed, thanks to all for your advice. Good Luck, the 189 is definately a better visa and not many agents would take you on if they thought you would fail to gain the visa in the end. Cal x Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aidan Wilde Posted April 28, 2015 Share Posted April 28, 2015 Hi Dan, I am a recent convert from 457 to PR with employer. If you use an agent the cost of the 457 to whoever is paying will be around $3.5k then 2 years down the line it to make you are PR it would be around $10k. - The application is around $7k the rest the fee to the MA. So if your company has an HR department then the whole process maybe just $10k to the company saving the MA fees. If the company is ok to sponsor you for 457 then they should be ok to do the PR later down the line. They just have to show that they have trained (spent 1% of total salary over 12 months) the other aussie members of staff in skills they can use in their future careers. Good luck with whatever you decide. Aidan I just thought the 457 was a simple-ish way to gain PR if you proved your worth with your work. I have heard people in the past mention about the exploitation of workers when they think a PR visa is in their grasp, that isn't an option unfortunately, being turned down in 2 years would be heartbreaking and a waste of time. Been speaking to an agent this week and they think we'd be eligible for a 189. Accepted their offer of assistance and waiting for the next move. Fingers crossed, thanks to all for your advice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozmaniac Posted April 28, 2015 Share Posted April 28, 2015 (edited) Hi Dan, I am a recent convert from 457 to PR with employer. If the company is ok to sponsor you for 457 then they should be ok to do the PR later down the line. They just have to show that they have trained (spent 1% of total salary over 12 months) the other aussie members of staff in skills they can use in their future careers. Good luck with whatever you decide. Aidan Moving from a 457 to being sponsored for a permanent visa works fine for many people but the problem is that things can change, often due to circumstances out of anyone's control. There's a business downturn or you have a falling out with management or management policies change or the company is sold or any number of other circumstances arise so that the company doesn't come through with their undertaking to sponsor the 457 holder for a permanent visa. Over the last few years on PIO, I've seen dozens of examples of people who were not sponsored for PR after working on a 457 for 2 or even more years. Anyone who wants to stay in Australia permanently and who can get a permanent visa from the outset should forget about a 457 and go directly for the permanent visa. Edited April 28, 2015 by Ozmaniac Typo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VERYSTORMY Posted April 28, 2015 Share Posted April 28, 2015 Hi Dan, I am a recent convert from 457 to PR with employer. If you use an agent the cost of the 457 to whoever is paying will be around $3.5k then 2 years down the line it to make you are PR it would be around $10k. - The application is around $7k the rest the fee to the MA. So if your company has an HR department then the whole process maybe just $10k to the company saving the MA fees. If the company is ok to sponsor you for 457 then they should be ok to do the PR later down the line. They just have to show that they have trained (spent 1% of total salary over 12 months) the other aussie members of staff in skills they can use in their future careers. Good luck with whatever you decide. Aidan It assumes lots of things. First, there is no guarantee of sponsorship to pr. I am seeing lots of cases of people that suddenly are finding there employer won't. Second, I have seen LOTS of people on a 457 lose their job and had to leave. I have personally waved goodbye to about a dozen friends at the airport that have fallen into this and lost count of the cases on here that have fallen. A move on a 457 is not much cheaper even initially than a pr visa as compared to the costs of the overall move, the actual visa costs are only part. Add in, that many 457 holders partners have major issues getting jobs, that in a number of states they have to pay childcare, that things like credit are limited, then a 457 can be more expensive. For or the record, we arrived on my 457 in 2008, moved to a new employer on another 457, gained a 186, gained citizenship two years ago. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aidan Wilde Posted April 28, 2015 Share Posted April 28, 2015 Sure sure. I had all those risks ahead of me to. My experience was.. Being positive all the way, kept my eyes on the prize, supported my partner through tough times and did a damn good job for the employer. The Jobs been bloody tough to, really good times and some horrendous. The above was just one way of getting what we set out for. We got PR in Feb this year and 5 days ago my wife gave birth to our first child who now has Citizenship. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VERYSTORMY Posted April 28, 2015 Share Posted April 28, 2015 I will add, that my last staff role, came about because the encombant was a 457 holder and the company changed its policy that it would not sponsor 457 or pr. So they had to leave - they also had to leave the country. I was previously at a world renowned mining company who sponsored my pr. Shortly after, they made a policy decision to no longer do so and have since made a policy not to renew 457 visas so current employees will face a forced end of contract and, given the state of the market, a forced return home for many. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rammygirl Posted April 28, 2015 Share Posted April 28, 2015 Sure sure. I had all those risks ahead of me to. My experience was.. Being positive all the way, kept my eyes on the prize, supported my partner through tough times and did a damn good job for the employer. The Jobs been bloody tough to, really good times and some horrendous. The above was just one way of getting what we set out for. We got PR in Feb this year and 5 days ago my wife gave birth to our first child who now has Citizenship. congratulations on both the PR and the baby! glad it worked out for you but it doesn't for many people. Even those promised faithfully by their employers that they would get Pr. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DanGB Posted April 25, 2016 Author Share Posted April 25, 2016 Thankyou to all of the people that gave advice and knowledge answering my question. It's been a while but we had our 189 Granted on Wednesday. Thanks again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
calNgary Posted April 26, 2016 Share Posted April 26, 2016 Congratulations on the visa grant Cal x Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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