steve14 Posted June 16, 2014 Share Posted June 16, 2014 Hello, This is my first post on the forum, hopefully some seasoned PIO (or outside) can help me out. First of all let me say I've had a good look on the immigration website and I can't really work out the best solution in terms of a visa for my mum to come out permanently, so I thought i'd ask here. Also, I realise that a subclass of aged parent visa has just been scrapped and i'm sure that will affect my situation, i'm just not sure how. My situation: I live in Sydney and I have had citizenship since 2006 (although I just spent 2 years back in the UK after my father died, to help my mother adjust). Been back in Sydney 6 months. – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – My mother is 78, in pretty decent health save a bit of wear and tear! Had a low-level cancer (is there such a thing?!) 7-8 years ago but in total remission. She can afford to pay for the contributory visa. – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – I have a sister in the UK, she may try to come out here too, not sure if that affects things - probably a separate issue. Can anyone tell me what the best course of action is in terms of visa to apply for? Do you have to do it in stages, ie temp visa then perm visa or can you go straight for the perm visa etc etc... Thanks in advance for any help Steve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adam Grey Posted June 16, 2014 Share Posted June 16, 2014 Hi Steve, The recent changes effectively mean that the contributory parent visas are the only viable options available in this circumstance. Provided that you and your sister are the only children, your mum would meet the 'balance of family' criteria and the health issue you've mentioned does not give me too much cause for concern. The health criteria is met at the time of visa decision, which for this visa would be 1-2 years so please note deteriorating health can cause an issue. If affordable it is generally better to apply straight for the permanent visa without applying for the temporary version first. I would also point out that as your mother is considered 'aged' an onshore application would be possible as long as she held a substantive visa without a 'no further stay' condition at the time of lodgement. Applications made onshore can often be more beneficial, especially when the applicant is elderly and/or has a health condition. 1st stage Visa Application Charge for an sc 864 visa is $3,520. After 1-2 years when the visa is ready to be decided they will ask for a 2nd stage VAC of $43,600 and an Assurance of Support of $10,000 Hope this helps, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bridgeman Posted June 16, 2014 Share Posted June 16, 2014 The only real visa options for parents now are the contributory visas. The 173/143 are offshore visas, which means the applicant has to be offshore when the visa is granted. You do not need to apply for the temporary visa first, and can apply for the permanent straight off. People sometimes go the temporary then permanent route as this allows them to split the cost although it does end up costing slightly more than going for the permanent straight off and the AOS is not payable until the permanent visa is applied for. As your mother is over 65 she would be eligible to apply onshore for the Aged Contributory Parent visa, either temporary, then permanent, or permanent straight away. She would then be granted a bridging visa to allow her to stay in Australia till the visa is granted. With regard to processing time, I have heard that the onshore visa is being processed slightly quicker than the offshore version. The offshore 173/143 is currently taking around 16-18 months to be processed I believe. Whether she applies onshore or offshore I suppose boils down to how confident you are that she would pass the medical as if she failed she would then have to leave Australia if on a bridging visa, although there are strategies for dealing with this through a good agent. Applying onshore would allow her to be in Australia sooner, although she can only do this is she does not have a 'No Further Stay' condition on her visitor visa. You may not be aware, but she can always apply for a one year visitor visa while she is waiting for her visa to be processed. I assume that she passes the Balance of Family test, ie that she has at least half her children in Australia. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adam Grey Posted June 16, 2014 Share Posted June 16, 2014 (edited) Whether she applies onshore or offshore I suppose boils down to how confident you are that she would pass the medical as if she failed she would then have to leave Australia if on a bridging visa, although there are strategies for dealing with this through a good agent. In the event of ailing health you really want that application to be made onshore as there's ways of keeping the applicant in the country should the health criteria not be met. Edited June 16, 2014 by Adam Grey Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
weaver Posted June 16, 2014 Share Posted June 16, 2014 Please can you tell me. What classes as a substantive visa? Is a tourist visa sufficient? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve14 Posted June 16, 2014 Author Share Posted June 16, 2014 Thank you very much for the advice, a whole lot clearer than the Immigration website. Yes, she does pass the Balance of Family test. and to be fair, her health is pretty good for her age. Some arthritis and a dodgy knee is about the worst of it right now. So, in essence, if we went to a good agent and they assessed her to be in 'good health', she could apply offshore, then come here on the 1 year visitor visa? How would she go about applying onshore and whats the 'No Further Stay' condition? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adam Grey Posted June 16, 2014 Share Posted June 16, 2014 Please can you tell me. What classes as a substantive visa? Is a tourist visa sufficient? Yes a tourist visa will be fine provided it does not have condition 8503 (no further stay). Remember when applying for a tourist visa the intention must be to enter Australia as a genuine tourist. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
weaver Posted June 16, 2014 Share Posted June 16, 2014 Yes a tourist visa will be fine provided it does not have condition 8503 (no further stay). Remember when applying for a tourist visa the intention must be to enter Australia as a genuine tourist. Thank you for the information. It's just another avenue to look at. I'll probably just do the 143 and keep visiting but it's worth thinking about. I can't apply yet until after October as I am waiting for my daughter and son-in-law to put in their two years before sponsoring me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adam Grey Posted June 16, 2014 Share Posted June 16, 2014 Thank you very much for the advice, a whole lot clearer than the Immigration website.Yes, she does pass the Balance of Family test. and to be fair, her health is pretty good for her age. Some arthritis and a dodgy knee is about the worst of it right now. So, in essence, if we went to a good agent and they assessed her to be in 'good health', she could apply offshore, then come here on the 1 year visitor visa? How would she go about applying onshore and whats the 'No Further Stay' condition? A 'no further stay' condition is included on certain visas and prevents the applicant from applying for another visa while onshore. If we take a tourist visa as an example, the condition is unlikely to be imposed if the applicant is from a low-risk country like the United Kingdom. This would mean that a UK tourist will generally be able to apply for an onshore Contributory Parent Visa if they're eligible. Applying onshore has the benefit of being able to reside in Australia on a bridging visa while awaiting a decision and if the health criteria is not met there are ways of keeping your mum in the country (at least for a while). If she applied offshore and failed the health criteria there's no such possibility. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adam Grey Posted June 16, 2014 Share Posted June 16, 2014 Thank you for the information. It's just another avenue to look at. I'll probably just do the 143 and keep visiting but it's worth thinking about. I can't apply yet until after October as I am waiting for my daughter and son-in-law to put in their two years before sponsoring me. Just in case you're not aware the 2 year period does not have to be as a Permanent Resident. Any period of lawful residence in Australia counts towards it. Also that onshore applicants have to be 'aged' (over 65). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve14 Posted June 16, 2014 Author Share Posted June 16, 2014 thank you to all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve14 Posted June 16, 2014 Author Share Posted June 16, 2014 Oh yes, can anyone suggest a way to determine whether my mother would pass the criteria for 'good health'. Would a good visa specialist in London (where my mother lives) be able to determine that pretty quickly? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adam Grey Posted June 16, 2014 Share Posted June 16, 2014 A Medical Officer of the Commonwealth would make the assessment. An agent could give you an opinion based on previous experience of various conditions and the current health criteria, but we're talking about her health 1-2 years down the line so it's hard to predict anything and nobody can give you a definitive answer. Health conditions that cause a significant cost to the Australian healthcare system or result in the need for medical treatment that is in short supply generally cause a failure to meet the health criteria. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
weaver Posted June 16, 2014 Share Posted June 16, 2014 Just in case you're not aware the 2 year period does not have to be as a Permanent Resident. Any period of lawful residence in Australia counts towards it. Also that onshore applicants have to be 'aged' (over 65). Thank you once again. They are there on a permanent residency visa and I do age qualify. Thankyou for all the wonderful information form yourself, Alan and many others. I am so very grateful for all the advice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quoll Posted June 16, 2014 Share Posted June 16, 2014 Oh yes, can anyone suggest a way to determine whether my mother would pass the criteria for 'good health'. Would a good visa specialist in London (where my mother lives) be able to determine that pretty quickly? George Lombard and Peter Bollard are the names usually mentioned in connection with medical issues, they're reputedly on the ball! Just a thought though - does your elderly mother really want to give up her well established connections and her life to trek to a foreign country where she may well be financially, medically and socially disadvantaged and potentially isolated and totally dependent upon you? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan Collett Posted June 16, 2014 Share Posted June 16, 2014 Hello Steve. A quick note to add to the above: your mother can apply for a temporary Contributory Aged Parent visa initially - a subclass 884 visa - before progressing to permanent residency via an 864 permanent residency visa. The benefit of this strategy is a spreading of the costs of the application. The downside is that overall the amounts paid to the Department of Immigration will be higher. As an aside, we lodged an 864 visa application for a client on the 28th of May (not an 884 visaholder - the client applied directly from an eVisitor visa). The application has already been assessed. Medicals, police clearances, and the Assurance of Support have been requested => applications under this subclass can progress quickly. Best regards. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adam Grey Posted June 17, 2014 Share Posted June 17, 2014 As an aside, we lodged an 864 visa application for a client on the 28th of May (not an 884 visaholder - the client applied directly from an eVisitor visa). The application has already been assessed. Medicals, police clearances, and the Assurance of Support have been requested => applications under this subclass can progress quickly. Best regards. Alan, have you lodged any 143 applications recently? We also found that the 864s were being assessed within a few weeks but the 143s are taking at least a year. Another plus point for onshore lodgement. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan Collett Posted June 17, 2014 Share Posted June 17, 2014 Hi Adam. Yes, the 143s from offshore are taking closer to 2 years from lodgement to grant at the moment. Best regards. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve14 Posted June 18, 2014 Author Share Posted June 18, 2014 So to be clear could my mother come to Australia on a tourist visa and lodge an application for an 864 visa immediately, and if all goes well (health checks etc) she could be granted visa status within a few months? Would she have to be in Australia whilst the visa was being assessed by immigration or could she go back to the UK? Could she apply for an 864 from the UK? and if so would the processing time be longer as it's offshore? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan Collett Posted June 18, 2014 Share Posted June 18, 2014 Would she have to be in Australia whilst the visa was being assessed by immigration or could she go back to the UK? => She has to be in Australia at the time the visa application is lodged, and when it is granted. The ability to depart Australia and to return before the 864 visa is granted will be a function of when her visitor visa expires, and the time taken for the 864 visa to be processed. You are into technical areas here involving tourist visas and Bridging Visas => it may be best to instruct an advisor who is across these issues to help manage the process? Best regards. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve14 Posted June 18, 2014 Author Share Posted June 18, 2014 Alan, roughly what kind of costs would an advisor charge for managing the process? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan Collett Posted June 18, 2014 Share Posted June 18, 2014 Please feel able to send a PM or email to me - and to any of the other agents on this forum. Best regards. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve14 Posted June 25, 2014 Author Share Posted June 25, 2014 Thanks everyone for all your comments, I've contacted GL and will be having a consultation with him in the coming weeks. Another couple of questions: My sister is also thinking about Australia. She's 43. Any thoughts on the best course of action for her? Sponsorship by a company perhaps? I have no idea. Would it matter that she is the 'remaining sibling' I know that visa has just been scrapped. And, can anyone point me in the right direction (if there is one) where my mum might get some insight into the realities of moving to a new place. She has been to Sydney a few times but when she gets to Oz we will be in Melbourne and she's never been there - it'll all be very new for her, as quoll said earlier in the thread, not support structure except for us. Some thoughts from people in the same boat would be very useful, if there is such a place/forum/thread? Thanks in advance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jbar399 Posted August 26, 2014 Share Posted August 26, 2014 Hi Adam, i notice your comment to weaver concerning the 2 year period..as stated above. When you say 'any lawful residence in Australia counts towards it..you don't have to be as a permanent resident' what exactly does that mean? Because my mother is in the uk and has all three children here in australia settled but only 1 has Australian residence- other two of us have NZ citizenship (non eligible- did not enter prior to 2001). I am enquiring because does this affect the 'family balance test'? much appreciated Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tral12 Posted August 26, 2014 Share Posted August 26, 2014 Hello Steve. As an aside, we lodged an 864 visa application for a client on the 28th of May (not an 884 visaholder - the client applied directly from an eVisitor visa). The application has already been assessed. Medicals, police clearances, and the Assurance of Support have been requested => applications under this subclass can progress quickly. Best regards. My wife and I are considering applying for CP 143 visas (one daughter permanent resident in Australia, one son resident in UK). It appears that the 143 visas could take up to almost 2 years to process? As we visit Australia at least once a year the 864 visa, with what appears to be a much shorter processing time, seems to be a better option? If we were to go down this route and were granted a bridging visa what is the position about leaving Australia for a visit back home in UK or if you needed to return home to UK urgently? Also, as you must be in Australia when the 864 visa is granted, do you get sufficient notice to return to Australia when the visa is about to be granted. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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