elderberry Posted July 2, 2011 Share Posted July 2, 2011 I've just come across this - http://www.immi.gov.au/allforms/booklets/1119.pdf 51 pages long, but will probablly answer a lot of questions you may have on changes to GSM with the new points system Hope it helps Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wrussell Posted July 3, 2011 Share Posted July 3, 2011 I've just come across this - http://www.immi.gov.au/allforms/booklets/1119.pdf 51 pages long, but will probablly answer a lot of questions you may have on changes to GSM with the new points system Hope it helps \ As with many DIAC publications it contains errors and misleading information. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest joshuawei Posted July 3, 2011 Share Posted July 3, 2011 Thanks elderberry. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elderberry Posted July 3, 2011 Author Share Posted July 3, 2011 \As with many DIAC publications it contains errors and misleading information. Oh, that's not good to hear Westly! There was me thinking that DIAC were better than that. Guess the best way is to use a migration agent eh :wink: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wrussell Posted July 5, 2011 Share Posted July 5, 2011 Oh, that's not good to hear Westly!There was me thinking that DIAC were better than that. Guess the best way is to use a migration agent eh :wink: or refer to the Migration Regulations and the Migration Act, not the DIAC commentary about them Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elderberry Posted July 5, 2011 Author Share Posted July 5, 2011 Thanks Westly, but I think the commonwealth law documents (and I guess there may be more) may be a bit much for some people to translate into meaningful English! No doubt it is easier to take the advice of a migration agent! http://www.comlaw.gov.au/Details/F2011L00966/Explanatory%20Statement/Text http://www.comlaw.gov.au/Details/F2011C00180/Html/Volume_6#_Toc289169494 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
musmanasghar Posted July 5, 2011 Share Posted July 5, 2011 Immigration application is not a ROCKET SCIENCE ... any one who can understand FORMS can do that .... so i think hiring an agent is totally waste of money .... just follow instructions properly ... FORUMS like PIO are here to help migrants ... to the OP well done mate Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wrussell Posted July 5, 2011 Share Posted July 5, 2011 Immigration application is not a ROCKET SCIENCE ... any one who can understand FORMS can do that .... so i think hiring an agent is totally waste of money .... just follow instructions properly ... FORUMS like PIO are here to help migrants ... to the OP well done mate In that case you will be able to publish the percentage DIY applicants who are refused cf. the percentage of refusals for applicants represented by a registered migration agent. If you really know your stuff you will be able to advise the percentage of applicants who were advised by 'education agents' and were refused and how many found themselves studying courses that led nowhere and wished they had been refused. If that is all too hard for you let me know waht percentage of refused applicants have reviewable decisions and how many of those applied for reviews in the past 12 months. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
musmanasghar Posted July 6, 2011 Share Posted July 6, 2011 In that case you will be able to publish the percentage DIY applicants who are refused cf. the percentage of refusals for applicants represented by a registered migration agent. If you really know your stuff you will be able to advise the percentage of applicants who were advised by 'education agents' and were refused and how many found themselves studying courses that led nowhere and wished they had been refused. If that is all too hard for you let me know waht percentage of refused applicants have reviewable decisions and how many of those applied for reviews in the past 12 months. Booklet 6 was published only couple of days ago, i will like to know that, how come you know there are ERRORS in it. if there are any then Please mention them here on this FORUM, so that future applicants will not follow those misleading info. Please note, i have seen positive contributions from agents like Alan Collett (http://www.gomatilda.com/home.cfm) George Lombard (http://www.austimmigration.com.au), Susan Wareham McGrath (http://susanwareham.com/). and thats the only reason, when some one ask about agent recommendation, 80 to 90% users recommend these nice people. In my case i can only present my case and all others who done it successfully. yes there are many who got refusal only because they were failed to understand the proper procedure .. as said earlier its not rocket science. Most migration agents just fillup forms, arrange documents and upload them online. On the other hand there are many applicants who were refused while using an agent. If Migraion agent can not confirm the proper time frame of visa processing, and he only refer his applicats to check DIAC given time frame then my friend i am not agree with you ... No agent whether registered or unregistered can confirm the future of processing priority and time frame, only the current processing then why should i check it online, rather than asking my agent.? i will really appreciate your positive input. and dont think that i am targeting you and other MARA agents. I am not here for agent bashing, as mentioned in my above statement i really respect some of them ... Migrations agents are helpful only if some one is not confident about application procedure as well as if he want to save his time during case file .... agents really help when there is some kind of complicated situation like health, criminal record or custody issues .... I will stick to my point that, If one's case is simple and straight fwd. he must do it all by himself... no need to hire an agent.... Peace Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wrussell Posted July 6, 2011 Share Posted July 6, 2011 Booklet 6 was published only couple of days ago, i will like to know that, how come you know there are ERRORS in it. if there are any then Please mention them here on this FORUM, so that future applicants will not follow those misleading info. Please note, i have seen positive contributions from agents like Alan Collett (http://www.gomatilda.com/home.cfm) George Lombard (www.austimmigration.com.au), Susan Wareham McGrath (http://susanwareham.com/). and thats the only reason, when some one ask about agent recommendation, 80 to 90% users recommend these nice people. In my case i can only present my case and all others who done it successfully. yes there are many who got refusal only because they were failed to understand the proper procedure .. as said earlier its not rocket science. Most migration agents just fillup forms, arrange documents and upload them online. On the other hand there are many applicants who were refused while using an agent. If Migraion agent can not confirm the proper time frame of visa processing, and he only refer his applicats to check DIAC given time frame then my friend i am not agree with you ... No agent whether registered or unregistered can confirm the future of processing priority and time frame, only the current processing then why should i check it online, rather than asking my agent.? i will really appreciate your positive input. and dont think that i am targeting you and other MARA agents. I am not here for agent bashing, as mentioned in my above statement i really respect some of them ... Migrations agents are helpful only if some one is not confident about application procedure as well as if he want to save his time during case file .... agents really help when there is some kind of complicated situation like health, criminal record or custody issues .... I will stick to my point that, If one's case is simple and straight fwd. he must do it all by himself... no need to hire an agent.... Peace From Booklet 6: English language To work in a skilled occupation in Australia you need to have good English. Applicants for a General Skilled Migration visa are required to have ‘competent’ English. For some professional occupations, the assessing authority will require a higher level of English as part of their skills assessment process. You have up until the time of decision to provide evidence that you have competent English The red bit is wrong. Booklet 6 is riddled with errors. If you want a full professional analysis of the inadequacies of this document my fee will be AUD$4500, plus GST if applicable. In the past week I have sent a dozen or so emails with text similar to: Dear xxx From the information you provided, we assess that you almost certainly do not need the full services of a registered migration agent to manage your case. I suggest that you let us advise you what has to be done at each stage, email you the relevant forms and then check your applications before you lodge them. If it suits you to proceed in this way, please let me know and I will instruct my staff to prepare a costs breakdown for you to consider. Best Westly and I have assessed the visa prospects of another dozen or so gratis and advised them that they do not have reasonable prospects. On 4 July I received a positive decision from the MRT for a DIY applicant who had blown himself out of the water. He had invested $100 000 + studying in Australia. If he had consulted me before he lodged it would have cost him $130. Now it will cost him $1400. The arrangement was - If I win it, I will take the filing fee refund - If I lose it, I will buy lunch. I thought we would win it 'on the papers' that is without going to a hearing, but the presiding member had other ideas. There I was, done up like a pox doctor's clerk, making the case. The client made a 50km the next day to reimburse me for lunch and there I was, underneath the Pajero, done up in full battledress, replacing the clutch. I have a sign on my door - If you knock on this door and you do not have an appointment, make sure you have a search warrant. I do not make appointments and I rarely answer the telephone that the OMARA insists I have. Clients still keep coming, all by referrals. I give more cases to other registered migration agents than I take on. Speaking of $130 there was a recent poster on this forum who had shot himself in the foot and was about to shoot himself in the other foot. I obtained his details, assessed his case and let him know I could advise him how to proceed, for that meager sum. He was not interested. By the way. I do not fill up forms for clients. I let the clients do this and then I correct the errors. In more than 8 years I have received only 2 forms that did not have to be corrected. The role of a registered migration is to stand between the client and the Beast. It is your turn to answer one of my questions. Take your pick. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_shel Posted July 6, 2011 Share Posted July 6, 2011 Immigration application is not a ROCKET SCIENCE ... any one who can understand FORMS can do that .... so i think hiring an agent is totally waste of money .... just follow instructions properly ... FORUMS like PIO are here to help migrants ... to the OP well done mate PIO although helpful is only visited by a handful of agents and people just like you who are applying for a visa and no very little of the governing laws & policies! To rely soley on PIO members to get acurte info on what and how you should be doing things in complicated situations is a bad decision imo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
musmanasghar Posted July 6, 2011 Share Posted July 6, 2011 From Booklet 6: English language To work in a skilled occupation in Australia you need to have good English. Applicants for a General Skilled Migration visa are required to have ‘competent’ English. For some professional occupations, the assessing authority will require a higher level of English as part of their skills assessment process. You have up until the time of decision to provide evidence that you have competent English The red bit is wrong. Booklet 6 is riddled with errors. If you want a full professional analysis of the inadequacies of this document my fee will be AUD$4500, plus GST if applicable. In the past week I have sent a dozen or so emails with text similar to: Dear xxx From the information you provided, we assess that you almost certainly do not need the full services of a registered migration agent to manage your case. I suggest that you let us advise you what has to be done at each stage, email you the relevant forms and then check your applications before you lodge them. If it suits you to proceed in this way, please let me know and I will instruct my staff to prepare a costs breakdown for you to consider. Best Westly and I have assessed the visa prospects of another dozen or so gratis and advised them that they do not have reasonable prospects. On 4 July I received a positive decision from the MRT for a DIY applicant who had blown himself out of the water. He had invested $100 000 + studying in Australia. If he had consulted me before he lodged it would have cost him $130. Now it will cost him $1400. The arrangement was - If I win it, I will take the filing fee refund - If I lose it, I will buy lunch. I thought we would win it 'on the papers' that is without going to a hearing, but the presiding member had other ideas. There I was, done up like a pox doctor's clerk, making the case. The client made a 50km the next day to reimburse me for lunch and there I was, underneath the Pajero, done up in full battledress, replacing the clutch. I have a sign on my door - If you knock on this door and you do not have an appointment, make sure you have a search warrant. I do not make appointments and I rarely answer the telephone that the OMARA insists I have. Clients still keep coming, all by referrals. I give more cases to other registered migration agents than I take on. Speaking of $130 there was a recent poster on this forum who had shot himself in the foot and was about to shoot himself in the other foot. I obtained his details, assessed his case and let him know I could advise him how to proceed, for that meager sum. He was not interested. By the way. I do not fill up forms for clients. I let the clients do this and then I correct the errors. In more than 8 years I have received only 2 forms that did not have to be corrected. The role of a registered migration is to stand between the client and the Beast. It is your turn to answer one of my questions. Take your pick. As i said earlier in my previous post, agents are only good if there are some complications in there case. I am impressed you have done some good work from last 8 years. If there are errors in BOOKLET 6 as u mentioned then why should i pay u for document analysis? ... why dont u ask DIAC and tell them that, "Dear DIAC people, the document named as BOOKLET 6 which is used to guide future visa applicants have got some mistakes. i would like to provide my professional expertise to analyse and correct those mistakes. my charges are ...... " The thing about English language ability you mention also needs more clarification. Not just Assessment authorities but also some States require higher english language ability for there SMP applicants ... so when one confident applicant research on his visa chances then no doubt many of them research further details ..... You are only emphasizing on those who have done some mistakes in there journey to PR ... but i m telling you about those who have done it successfully ... As an agent you are doing RIGHT and as an applicant, i am presenting my point of view. Me and many other PIO members are here to help future applicants and we will try our best to guide each and every one of them. hopefuls with some serious issues were redirected for professional advise (i.e. MARA agents). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
musmanasghar Posted July 6, 2011 Share Posted July 6, 2011 PIO although helpful is only visited by a handful of agents and people just like you who are applying for a visa and no very little of the governing laws & policies! To rely soley on PIO members to get acurte info on what and how you should be doing things in complicated situations is a bad decision imo. Exactly what i said in my later posts, If there is some complications then i will strongly recommend to consult a MARA agent. but if Case is simple and straight fwd. plus one want to do it it. then there is no need to hire any one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Guest 47403 Posted July 6, 2011 Share Posted July 6, 2011 Westly and other migration agents come on here and give some advice if asked for free, if they feel the person asking the questions needs to consult a migration agent they will advise them so, they don't have to post on PIO. Why have an attitude towards migration agents they provide a good service to those that need it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Guest 47403 Posted July 6, 2011 Share Posted July 6, 2011 sorry posted in wrong thread Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elderberry Posted July 6, 2011 Author Share Posted July 6, 2011 Oh, sorry, I seem to have lit the touch paper here! Let's just accept a few things eh - Information is useful, the more we read, the more we share, the more we learn - Migration agents comments are helpful as they are specialists in their own field. They don't need to offer advice free, but by so doing they build up a good reputation and potential business - All of us could apply for migration without an agent, but each of us has to weigh up our attitude to risk, the cost involved and the benefit to be gained. This will be different for every person and their individual circumstances. -DIAC documents can be unreliable, refer to the detail of Migration law to check for accuracy before you lodge (DIY applicants) or post on here and watch the sparks fly!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
musmanasghar Posted July 6, 2011 Share Posted July 6, 2011 Oh, sorry, I seem to have lit the touch paper here! Let's just accept a few things eh - Information is useful, the more we read, the more we share, the more we learn - Migration agents comments are helpful as they are specialists in their own field. They don't need to offer advice free, but by so doing they build up a good reputation and potential business - All of us could apply for migration without an agent, but each of us has to weigh up our attitude to risk, the cost involved and the benefit to be gained. This will be different for every person and their individual circumstances. -DIAC documents can be unreliable, refer to the detail of Migration law to check for accuracy before you lodge (DIY applicants) or post on here and watch the sparks fly!!! Exactly .... Dear WRUSSELL please accept my apologies if any of my comment hurt you. I think both of us have only 1 thing in mind, that is we want to help others. PEACE Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wrussell Posted July 6, 2011 Share Posted July 6, 2011 Exactly .... Dear WRUSSELL please accept my apologies if any of my comment hurt you. I think both of us have only 1 thing in mind, that is we want to help others. PEACE I have had dealings with the DIAC (they have changed their name more times than el shonko used car dealers) since 1985. In my considered opinion the DIAC is incompetent, corrupt and racialist. With that there are some good people in bad system. A reputable registered migration agent will not run a case that has no prospects of success (except in limited circumstances for strategic reasons) and will not undertake unnecessary services. I can often read a post and tell by the question/s being asked that the poster is pretty well clueless. I advise anyone who proposes to deal with the Beast to run the case past a registered migration agent. Different agents have different ways of dealing with this. Some agents undertake free telephone consultations. I do not do this. I return calls and ask enquirers to send me an email, so everything is in writing. If an enquirer cannot qualify I tell them so for no charge. Some agents undertake a detailed analysis and charge an amount. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wrussell Posted July 6, 2011 Share Posted July 6, 2011 PIO although helpful is only visited by a handful of agents and people just like you who are applying for a visa and no very little of the governing laws & policies! To rely soley on PIO members to get acurte info on what and how you should be doing things in complicated situations is a bad decision imo. I have never had a straightforward case. The applicant had a baby, which I added to the application for no charge and then she became pregnant again - the sponsor left Australia without telling anybody and the DIAC case officer was not satisfied that he was usually resident in Australia - the PCCs were in the wrong format, repeatedly, despite my explicit advice - the DIAC lost part or all of files - the DIAC lost payments - the employer mistakenly sent a completely spurious duty statement - when contacted by the DIAC self employed applicant contradicted his own written employment claims - applicants were married, separated, changed addresses without letting me know - applicants failed to send documents - banks stuffed up money transfers, repeatedly - clients changed their instructions about crucial facts part way through their cases - I have been sent fraudulent (forged) documents - I have received official records that were genuine, but contained errors (my record is 8 particulars out of 12 incorrect) - and so on and so on. If you are from the UK, it is more likely than not your correct name will be on your birth certificate, your degree will be recognised, your apprenticeship will be recognised, and so on. It is different (quite the opposite) for applicants from some other places, who might have English as their second or third language. For example, not so long ago about 90% of student visa applications from the sub-continent were being refused, regardless of the merits. Prospective students had sat IELTS, paid deposits to course providers, paid visa application charges and nobody had advised them about the probability of visa refusal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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