Uk v Australian degree....easier to achieve ?

[janlo]

Could anyone throw any light on the education system in Australia ? If the schools are not at the same standard as many have said and I'm inclined to agree, then do they kind of fast track them at the end.....say in year 12 ? because a degree is a degree so is it only the very brightest that get the results good enough for uni ? Bit confused as heaps go to uni from public schools, it must be easier as they don't seem to work as hard for it ! My son is in year 11, just about to start year 12 and then hopes to go to uni he is far less stressed than all his peers back home that have just done GCSEs. They must really stick it to them in that final year !

Edited September 20, 2014 by janlo

[Quoll]

Aus Honours degrees are 4 yrs whereas UK ones are 3 yrs. my boys didn't reckon much on their Aus uni degrees - especially when some units were graded on group presentation and most groups had dead wood!

[ramot]

My son did a degree in UK and then a degree/ MBA here. Never mentioned that either system was easier than the other, definitely worked harder here as he was a mature student, but that is the norm for mature students, rather than revelling in the life of a student first time round!

[LukeM]

Eh? What? Degree easier? No.

 

The timing is different as Quoll said. To be honest it's just more stressful dragging it out over so many years I say stuff 'em in to 2 years full time and deal with it.

 

But they cleverly plot it so they can index fees and interest rates and steal your money for the government.

 

Depends. Queensland I read has the highest dropout rate for University as they go younger from school to Uni.

 

I don't think it's easier at all. Everything is just what you make of it. Obviously a 'brighter' student is going to handle it differently... Public/private makes no difference IMO.

[janlo]

Thanks guys. The 4 year thing is something I wasnts aware of....makes more sense now. Bit disappointed I'm not going to get any keep of him til he's 22 though. !

[MARYROSE02]

Could anyone throw any light on the education system in Australia ? If the schools are not at the same standard as many have said and I'm inclined to agree, then do they kind of fast track them at the end.....say in year 12 ? because a degree is a degree so is it only the very brightest that get the results good enough for uni ? Bit confused as heaps go to uni from public schools, it must be easier as they don't seem to work as hard for it ! My son is in year 11, just about to start year 12 and then hopes to go to uni he is far less stressed than all his peers back home that have just done GCSEs. They must really stick it to them in that final year !

 

Perhaps your son is less stressed than he would have been had he stayed in the UK because the schools and teachers are better, not worse, in Australia? I don't know what criteria you are using to judge that the education system is inferior to the UK. Why not put that theory to one of the (Aussie) teachers at your next PTA meeting?

[Ali B]

I don't think you can assess "good/bad" on the basis of one or two anecdotal experiences. Students are lazy or diligent the world over. Some just want an easy deal for a couple of years and put in the minimum. Some subjects are more demanding than others. Decent students will work like blazes and work on a degree wherever they are.

[MARYROSE02]

Doing my degree at UNSW was the hardest ****ing work I've done in my life, hard to get in, hard to find the time to study whilst working full time, just 'hard' all round! Bottom line is that like so many things in both Australia and the UK, they are much the same. I've gone straight from one job in England to another in Australia, or vice versa, and everything is similar. You are subject to much the same conditions, same laws, work with the same bunch of people, go down the pub on a Friday night and whinge about the same bosses and co-workers.

 

The only people who notice differences, subjectively of course, are the ones who are not happy in whichever country they happen to be living in.

[janlo]

Perhaps your son is less stressed than he would have been had he stayed in the UK because the schools and teachers are better, not worse, in Australia? I don't know what criteria you are using to judge that the education system is inferior to the UK. Why not put that theory to one of the (Aussie) teachers at your next PTA meeting?

 

Well the standard in year 5 is no where near the same level as year 5 in the uk. I came across some old school work of my 14 year old in year 5 in the uk which is far from the year 5 level here.....I was a bit surprised. The HSC just doesn't seem as hard as the A'levels, both of which are entry into the uni system.

 

I will admit though the kids in oz are much more confident and have a great positive attitude (generally) which some would say is equally important !

Edited September 22, 2014 by janlo

[Addy]

I studied for my degree and a post grad diploma in the UK and am currently studying for my Masters in Australia. I have also spent the last 3 years working for Australian Universities. I would say that the main difference between UK and Australian courses is the flexibility Australian students enjoy. I am not sure if things have changed in British Uni's as it is a good few years since I studied there but when I studied in the UK the study patterns were inflexible and the academic year started in September and finished in June. Whereas in Australia there are at least two starting points in each year and students have the option to study anything from full time to one topic a semester which makes it easier to fit in with work.

 

The culture in the UK seems to be study hard for as short a time as possible and pay the debt off when you start work whereas the Australian culture seems to be to fit study around work and finish with as little debt as possible but take a longer time. The UK system has end of year and end of degree exams, (or did when I was a student there) whereas Australian uni's seem to go for continuous assessment and if there are exams they are at the end of a topic rather than the course. My Aussie colleagues find it hard to believe that I sat 13 x 3 hour exams and produced a dissertation at the end of my degree.

 

As Quoll mentioned Aussie degrees are ordinary degrees not honours degrees and as such there is intrinsically more work in the honours degree. However if you are living in Australia you only need an honours degree if you intend to continue in higher education. Employers are happy with an ordinary degree. I don't know how an Aussie degree translates in the UK - perhaps there are people on the forum who have experience. As a Brit moving into the Australian system my qualifications were marked differently and that caused problems. For example a mark of 80% is a first class degree grade in the UK and at the very top end of the marks given whereas 80% is a grade frequently given in Australia and equates to a Higher Distinction. There are computer programs used by the Uni's to try and get over these inconsistencies in marking. Having said all that I think the actual difficulty of the work should be of a similar standing between the two countries as the Times Uni rankings indicate.

Edited September 22, 2014 by Addy
typo

[Paul1Perth]

Aus Honours degrees are 4 yrs whereas UK ones are 3 yrs. my boys didn't reckon much on their Aus uni degrees - especially when some units were graded on group presentation and most groups had dead wood!

 

Depends what course it is, or used to. I did a Systems Engineering degree and did 3 years. That was because I'd worked in industry for a few years had an apprenticeship and a HNC. Otherwise with no previous experience it would have been 4 years. That was at Birmingham Uni.

 

I think things have changed in both countries to make it easier to get into Uni and easier to get a degree. At the end of the day none of the Uni's or lecturers wants anyone to fail, as it reflects badly on them. Especially now you have web sites that grades and evaluates Uni's on how many pass/fail and what grades they get. They bend over backwards trying to not get a failure.

 

I finished my degree back in 82 and there was a fair amount of the mark in the last year on group presentations and a final year project. I was put with a guy I didn't want to work with but wasn't given much choice. He was bone idle and hardly used to turn up for the day when we were doing the project. I did all the software for it and most of the hardware work. Problem was I had to virtually hand over my project for him to copy for both of us to pass. If I hadn't have done that we would both have failed.

 

A degree is just a stepping stone to work, it's not a be all and end all and in many cases it's not as much use as a good apprenticeship. Having got both the apprenticeship was a lot harder to get, you have to work full time and fit study in on top of that. At Uni, especially now a lot of the lectures are on-line, you don't even have to bother attending.

 

There always have been degrees that are worth getting and lead to good jobs and others that are not going to lead to much other than going into teaching. There were a lot of people quit the Engineering degree as it was "too hard" (their words not mine) and switched to something that wasn't going to tax them too much. They still come out with a degree at the end of it.

 

I have 4 nieces in the UK that have got degrees. 1 maths and science, 1 architecture, 1 American History, 1 Music and economics. Apart from the Architect, who has her own business the others are all teaching.

[janlo]

Thank you Addy....I don't remember seeing this reply! Very informative.

[Diane]

Incidentally, yes, Year 12 is a bugger of a year! Some private schools also spend Year 11 doing two years work so that Year 12 is mostly just revision, which seems to result in higher marks. My kids both went to a very academic school, and I can tell you were worked extremely hard in Year 12. Both are now at Uni, and my daughter seems to be constantly studying and doing assignments - she is on track for a distinction/high distinction for her first year, so it is obviously paying off, but it certainly doesn't look like any sort of easy ride.

 

My son is studying classical guitar so a totally different type of degree course - but does have to do a minimum of 4 hours practice a day as well as written assignments.

 

I've not had kids go through the English Uni system, but I would say Australia is definitely no easy option.

[janlo]

I originally posted this in sept ...fast forward and my now year 12 son is working soooo damn hard! God bless him. He really deserves to get that Uni place. :cute:

[janlo]

.....like Addy says.....just different. Maybe a little easier as it's spread over a longer period and more assessment based.

[JockinTas]

Incidentally, yes, Year 12 is a bugger of a year! Some private schools also spend Year 11 doing two years work so that Year 12 is mostly just revision, which seems to result in higher marks. My kids both went to a very academic school, and I can tell you were worked extremely hard in Year 12. Both are now at Uni, and my daughter seems to be constantly studying and doing assignments - she is on track for a distinction/high distinction for her first year, so it is obviously paying off, but it certainly doesn't look like any sort of easy ride.

 

My son is studying classical guitar so a totally different type of degree course - but does have to do a minimum of 4 hours practice a day as well as written assignments.

 

I've not had kids go through the English Uni system, but I would say Australia is definitely no easy option.

 

Absolutely not. My son did a veterinary science degree .......... very rigorous and it takes 5 years to complete but the degree is internationally recognised.

[MARYROSE02]

I would guess that Aussie universities are modelled on British ones, but then again, most universities seem to follow the same format, hence the free movement of teaching staff from all over the world. My BA at UNSW was hard work in the 80's and 90's, and my OUA degree today is hard work too.

[Guest littlesarah]

I think it all depends what degree you're doing. A number of universities have started offering 'accelerated' versions of programs to try to attract students; which can work well. For those degrees that lead to professional registration, the overseeing accreditation boards determine what the content should be, and the institution has to offer that. A lot of our students think their degree contains irrelevant material, until they get out on placement and realise that actually, knowing that stuff would be helpful! Personally, I believe that too many people go to university now, and it's just creating the situation in which more people are doing Master's degrees to try to get ahead of the rest of the pack. I'm concerned about uncapping of Commonwealth supported places and deregulation of fees as things that threaten the viability of degree programs (and I won't even start on the reduction in research funding which is making it really hard for 'cinderella' disciplines to attract funding now).

[HelensvaleHoward]

...fast forward and my now year 12 son is working soooo damn hard! God bless him. He really deserves to get that Uni place. :cute:

 

Our Son is in year 12 and is very busy studying

 

In the middle of exams at the mo

 

So far so good

 

Next stop Uni

[boganbear]

I've trained grads in the UK and Australia and I am sure Australian degrees are hard. However it seems to me that many Aussie grads do lack independent research and report writing skills because dissertations are rare for undergrad degrees.

[Guest littlesarah]

I've trained grads in the UK and Australia and I am sure Australian degrees are hard. However it seems to me that many Aussie grads do lack independent research and report writing skills because dissertations are rare for undergrad degrees.

 

I think that is a consideration - the fact that a British degree usually includes Honours, whereas here students usually have to complete an extra year to get that. However, the quality of the research that our Honours students do is higher than a lot of that generated by British students, I believe. Most of ours get published papers (at least one, sometimes two) out of their year, which is pretty unusual for Honours projects in the UK. When it comes to recruitment, that's where the Honours students should have an advantage, as only the better students would be able to secure a place in the honours programme.

[ToowoombaBlue]

My wife is a Podiatrist and studied in the UK. Without the Honours part of the degree she would not be able to practice as a Podiatrist in the UK, she would have just left uni with a standard degree. So I suppose it's something to think about if the studies were done here in Australia, but with a view to moving back the UK in the future....

 

Our daughter is in grade 4 at school and so far we have been extremely impressed with the work they have been doing. She does homework most nights and overall is doing very well. She was in a very good school in the UK, but so far I would say we are happier with her current one.

[VERYSTORMY]

I can only talk about my own profession - geoscience.

 

But, I find the standard of graduates from Oz woeful to say the least. The last graduate I had from what is regarded as the top geoscience dept in Oz and who had just completed honors would have struggled to be regarded as competent as a first year.

 

My old uni did formally evaluate a fairly well known department a couple of years ago as part of a possible exchange partnership and found it incompetent.

 

As for the 4 year / 3 year thing, personally, I think the degree here needs either a severe overhaul or massively extending. The issue is that many (probably all) of the grads I have had, have effectively done combined degrees. So, as little as half of their time was spent on geoscience. I even had one who had spent a huge chunk doing modern dance! While that might work for some disciplines, it doesnt for science. Even three years full time - we had 30 contact hours per week, easters and summer were work periods as well - is still very tight to cover the subject.

 

The odd thing though is i find the standard of post grad courses extremely high.

[Paul1Perth]

Aus Honours degrees are 4 yrs whereas UK ones are 3 yrs. my boys didn't reckon much on their Aus uni degrees - especially when some units were graded on group presentation and most groups had dead wood!

 

Depends Quoll. Engineering Honours degrees are sometimes 4 years in the UK too. Depends how much previous experience you've had before Uni. A few of the guys on our course had to have a year working in Industry and then go back and finish their degree. I was lucky as I'd been working in industry since I left school at 16, so was able to do it in 3.

 

I think things have changed so much in both countries in that their seems to be a lot more flexibility. Doing "modules", having a month of here and there, more choice of which modules you do to make up a degree.

 

I think it depends where you want to carry on your career too. A degree is just a means of helping you get a job. Once you have a job you might never use any of the skills and theory you learnt on your degree and go off at a completely different tangent.

 

If you see your career in mining in Aus then a degree from an Aussie Uni in Mining Engineering, for example, would be your best bet. If you wanted to work in the UK I don't know whether that qualification would get you very far.

 

Conversely I got a degree in Computer Aided Engineering from Birmingham Uni and it didn't mean squat to interviewers here. Sure the degree itself helped me get interviews but they were more interested in my work experience than what I'd done on my degree.

 

What did help, especially in WA, was getting my degree "ratified" at the University of Western Australia. They gave me a better looking certificate than my Birmingham Uni one and flashing that at interview in WA helped a lot.

 

The new grads I've worked with here are much like the ones in the UK. Some are great and get stuck in to the job and work really well. Some are useless and once they have the job it's hard to get rid of them. Some just want to carry on like they did at Uni and never really get into turning up on time, finishing things off. Doesn't seem to have a lot to do with how they did at Uni either.

I've had some new grads with fantastic Uni results and been crap at work. I've had others with average Uni results and been great. I think they want to have to work and learn and fit in with the work ethic. That's the main thing.

 

When you start work after a degree it's like starting an apprenticeship.

Edited June 22, 2015 by Paul1Perth

[Paul1Perth]

At the end of the day it's all about getting a job and maybe a lifelong career (rare these days though) that you enjoy and give you enough money to have a decent life, buy a house, get married, be able to afford to have kids and a good time.

 

There are apprenticeships also, which shouldn't be discarded. Could mean saving you thousands, getting paid as soon as you leave school and get you into a career sooner.

 

There are just as many very well qualified people struggling to get work as there are unqualified. Sometimes it's harder for the well qualified ones to get something to fill in the gaps. Employers know with their quals as soon as something comes up in their field that pays well they will be off.

 

I had lots of knock backs saying I was too qualified for what I was applying for when we first came. Had to tailor my application for each job and sometimes didn't mention I had a degree. My apprenticeship and fitting experience helped me get jobs here too.