Incapacity benefit cuts good or bad?

[guest37336]

As has been said before tho jim.....why dont people get up in arms about the lords signing a book then going to their fav gentlemens club to spend the £300 they just earned for signing in and then p7ssing off,claiming silly money expenses etc,big business and the billions it "avoids" in tax,heads of councils on 2 and 3 hundred grand a year and still claim for a chip butty they've bought? i honestly am really starting to think that the "fiddlers/scroungers" are the only ones with any sense tbh,after all their just milking the public purse as loads of their "superiors" do,they take the p7ss out of us but we accept it more readily from THEM because of yrs of conditioning in the THEM and US syndrome that is as strong in britain as any country in the world,there should be more of a public outcry about those robbing the taxpayer of billions every year,and im not talking dole scroungers

Hi Pablo.

I agree totally that the 'conditioning' syndrome is alive and well mate. It seems to sneak up on us without any notice, and in the end it becomes a form of 'acceptance' (sub conciouslesly) and that is the start of the slippery slope Pablo, a sort of shrugging shoulder syndrome where those in power can do whatever they want and know that little will be done.

I fully admit that it is very difficult habit to break out from, but I do maintain this one philosophy mate.

'IF' enough of us made our voices heard, (email, snail mail, marches, protests, etc) then 'maybe' things would be different. The trouble that the mere thought of 'doing something' also comes with the mindset of 'What Good Would It Do', BUT.

If we could organise a national day of protest, emails, snail mail, etc, the outcome may be different mate. I know very easy in theory, but I am a firm believer that enough of us raised up ad said what we actually thought it WOULD make a difference.

Can you imagine the MP's receiving over ten million emails within a week, or several MILLION people marching on parliament, i honestly think Pablo that maybe a change would come about.

It's also very easy for me to sit here and pontificate, again, and to blame the apathy for the way things are, but that is the truth mate. Apathy is a dangerous and vile condition to have, this is when governments all over the world can do what they please, and that as I said is a dangerous slope.

It's no good me blaming and accusing people of Apathy, we all have busy lives to lead mate, families to look after, careers to concern ourselves with, BUT.

It would only take one small step (in the grand scheme of things) to make our points valid, we all have opinions on things such as criminality, money, the NHS, the list is endless mate, but a firm believer in what affects one os us affects us ALL.

The NHS, murders may not affect us personally at this PARTICULAR time, but that does not admonish us of helping others that are struggling with the 'system', blah, blah, blah.

Sorry to go on mate, but I truly do hold true that every action we take affects ALL those around us, in short mate, long live (ignite) a 'Social Consciousness'.

Over and out mate,

Cheers Tony.

[The Ropey HOFF]

Hi Tony

i think Apathy is apparent in most of society these days, would the unions and activists taken the crap that we are having heaped on us today say........... 20 years ago, i think there would have been strikes and mass protests, its as though people are resigned to their fate these days.

[paulv]

Hi Tony

i think Apathy is apparent in most of society these days, would the unions and activists taken the crap that we are having heaped on us today say........... 20 years ago, i think there would have been strikes and mass protests, its as though people are resigned to their fate these days.

The weakening of the unions was all part of the plan, Jim.
More rules regarding time scales of ballots, percentages who must back action etc were introduced to water down the only hope that the working person had of having their rights defended.
It's all part of the bigger neoliberal plan...

[guest37336]

Hi Tony

i think Apathy is apparent in most of society these days, would the unions and activists taken the crap that we are having heaped on us today say........... 20 years ago, i think there would have been strikes and mass protests, its as though people are resigned to their fate these days.

Hi Jim.

I understand what you are saying, let me try and put it into context mate.

Mr Smith owns a nice house, no money worries, happy, for all intents and purposes he and his family are very happy and going along fine, (like millions of us at the moment)

Mr Smith lives in Portsmouth. One day on the news he see's that a old peoples retirement home is being closed down in Yorkshire, the inhabitants will be moved to a different location, some may have to move miles away from their family. Now whilst Mr Smith sits there and says what a shame it is, how dreadful, he then settles back into his chair and that's it.

Something MILLIONS of us do day after day mate. Though this problem is at the other end of the country does this admonish Mr Smith from making his feelings felt. True, it may not affect him 'directly' at this point in time. But if Mr Smith sits there and does little as sure as there is muck in brass ONE day what happened up north will affect him directly, one day.

That is when it has become 'his' problem, and I dare say Mr Smith would like to think that others would fight his corner for him, but what if everybody is like Mr Smith, no body says anything and Mr Smith finds that he is alone trying to fight a battle that could be lost because he is a lone voice.

All IO'm trying to say Jim, is that just because something doesn't affect us on A very PERSONAL level, DOES NOT admonish us of writhing a letter, email, protesting. The classic example mate is this. I think I mentioned it before.

Not many moons ago a hospital; wanted to open in Surrey to look after our service personnel, AND their families, long story short, the council received over 80 com,plaints from residents from Surrey, (not in my back yard was the intent). I along with several people went down to Surrey and made our voices felt about it.

Who knows, may not have done any good, but the project went ahead and bloody right to.

As I said Jim, we all have a responsibility to fellow human beings, it really DOESN'T take a lot to make others think mate, it really doesn't.

Sorry about going on Jim, but that is a very simplistic (I admit) way of looking at it, because it is very simple Jimbo.

Cheers Tony.

[guest37336]

I also realise Jim that I can come over as a sanctimonious little t7t, sitting here at a keyboard pontificating about how I want things to change.

I often read my own posts back and cringe at what others may think of me mate, but that is not enough reason to stop trying matey.

That is purely why I set up RAW UK, it was in the grand scheme of things a fairly simple process, paperwork, a fair bit of money to register with the Electoral Commission, there is little doubt that my efforts will be in vein mate, laughed at, dismissed, but who knows, maybe, just maybe one or two may be inspired to fight for what is right (and what they think is right may be a polar opposite to me, that's the way of the world) but at the very least the apathy and 'acceptance' may be less in years to come.

As a registered political party I may be able to force the issues I believe i mate, god knows I have tried other ways matey, so this was in a way the only path to take in the end.

As I said, there will be many who detest my thoughts, think them insignificant, laugh at them, that is something I have to accept, (however hard that is) but by god mate, I will with my dyeing breath at least be able to say I gave it a go.

Cheers Tony.

[The Ropey HOFF]

I agree with what your saying Tony, but i feel that people have changed over the years, as have the unions who have lost their teeth and so have the political parties, they all seem the same to me, the Labour government privatised Birmingham prison, i will repeat it ............... LABOUR privatised Birminham prison and all the screws are going lose £7,000 in wages working for the private sector, who would have ever thought this could have happened? and we have just had a vote for strike action, because the Tories are planning to privatise alot more and we voted 2 to 1 ............... against strike, 15 years ago over 90% would have voted to go on strike for something like this.

[peacock]

Yes but unfortunately the unions took it to far, I remember going out on strike years ago because hot drinks machine had run out of coffee, 3000+ blokes went home and then got paid for it the next day, how could buisiness in the UK be competitive with conditions like that, I agree the unions did a good job, but they spoilt it for themselves

[paulv]

Yes but unfortunately the unions took it to far, I remember going out on strike years ago because hot drinks machine had run out of coffee, 3000+ blokes went home and then got paid for it the next day, how could buisiness in the UK be competitive with conditions like that, I agree the unions did a good job, but they spoilt it for themselves

I'm not sure what they spoilt exactly (I'm obviously far too young), but the TUC have been pushing this fact this week..."If you're a member of a trade union in the UK you'll be paid on average £2 per hour more than non-members".

That's why businesses (and this government) don't like them - strength in numbers mean that they have to pay a decent wage and maintain decent conditions.

[pablo]

Alrite Tone
Your right of course,people power can make a difference,much smaller scale than gvnmt BUT,the lpool supporters managed to play a massive part in ousting the two american lying leeches who bought our club,it was an ongoing war between the two powerfull billionaires and various supporter groups set up to get them out,it was all organised by the spirit of shankly group,protests at the ground,sit in protests,protest videos like these etc.
One of the final hurdles they fell at was trying to remortgage the club AGAIN!a lpool supporter seen them entering a banking/finance groups offices in New York and informed SOS,overnight 14,000 emails landed on the PCs of the banks bosses,CEO etc,warning that it would happen again and again if they backed Hicks and Gillette,they decided not to!
The same went on with RBS who originally backed the yanks but helped in ousting them in the end,an ongoing campaign that went on for yrs with any financial institutions the yanks dealt with,so the people played a massive part in them getting booted out with no profit
So people CAN make a difference IF they care about something enuf!

Campaign song for RAW uk???!

[pablo]

Yes but unfortunately the unions took it to far, I remember going out on strike years ago because hot drinks machine had run out of coffee, 3000+ blokes went home and then got paid for it the next day, how could buisiness in the UK be competitive with conditions like that, I agree the unions did a good job, but they spoilt it for themselves

The unions at SOME places DID push things a bit too much,i used to be down at lpool docks all the time with me dad in his wagons as a kid,best place to learn to reverse an artic and rope and sheet the trailer etc,and on one occasion we had to leave the wagon in a queue for 3 days and get a cab home because the dockers were on a go slow,BUT its the chicken and egg syndrome pea,the dockers were treated like vermin for years,so i suppose when they got some power they went a bit OTT as well,human nature i'd have thought?i dont think unions are that militant/reckless anymore.
I dread to think where we would be without unions tho,like i allways bore everyone to death with.....read the ragged trousered philanthropist by robert tressel